Trouble w/ saving presets on CB MOOD

mxvnl

Member
Hey all, I just recently plugged my RJM in and am trying to learn some basics. I can't for the life of me seem to be able to figure out how to save a preset on my Chase Bliss MOOD. I watched a video (
) and read the manual (both RJM and CB MOOD). Have my Mood plugged into a Disaster Area Midibox 4 In & RJM MIDI Out, set the Mood in the presets as the correct MIDI channel but I don't see any indication that the RJM is recognizing the Mood and I certainly can't seem to set presets. Anything specific I should check or am I missing something?

Edit: Also if someone can just walk me through how to do this in the Editor software that's fine too. I basically just want to be able to set my pedal a certain way, then save the current settings to a preset. Don't care how I get there.
 
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No quick & easy answer, but a few troubleshooting ideas (they may or may not be obvious, but always best to question everything):

- Are you using a TRS cable from the midibox to the MOOD?
- Do you have any other midi-controlled pedals on your board? Are they receiving midi messages?
- You mentioned setting up the midi channel in the presets (I'm assuming you mean the presets tab on the PBC editor), but it would be on the Devices tab (not the Presets tab). How is the MOOD configured on the Devices tab?

I don't have a CB pedal any more, but I had the Brothers on my board for a while and was also using the Disaster Area midibox (the same one in that video). Other than having to learn the basics of midi, I had no issues once it was set up. Your setup should work.
 
I am pretty sure it's a TRS cable (I just ordered a bunch of custom cables -- guy seemed to know what he was doing but I will double check with him).

I do also have a Meris pedal, I can't seem to get that to receive messages either so I'm guessing it's something either in the cables or the way I'm setting up the devices. I have an expression pedal too which doesn't seem to be sending messages to them...

So two things I'm not totally clear about:

1) How do I know what the correct MIDI channel is for a device?

2) What exactly is the "PC" value & how should I set that?

The cables are all new so my guess is I'm doing something wrong with the settings, but being 100% new to this I'm not really sure what I should be looking for...
 
I am pretty sure it's a TRS cable (I just ordered a bunch of custom cables -- guy seemed to know what he was doing but I will double check with him).
A TRS cable has two bands around the plug (as opposed to a regular guitar patch cable, which only has one).

I do also have a Meris pedal, I can't seem to get that to receive messages either so I'm guessing it's something either in the cables or the way I'm setting up the devices. I have an expression pedal too which doesn't seem to be sending messages to them...
Meris also uses TRS, so I wonder if something is failing at the midibox. Do you have it powered? If I remember correctly the midibox takes a standard 2.1mm 9V center-negative power plug and it has a pretty low current draw, so it should be easy to power from whatever power supply you’re using. Not having power to the midibox could potentially cause the midi messages to not go through. Could be something else, but it’s a start.
So two things I'm not totally clear about:

1) How do I know what the correct MIDI channel is for a device?
Every device has to be set to a channel (1-16 are the available channels), and it will only respond to messages sent on that channel. Every device should have a unique channel, kind of like a phone number. When a message is sent, only the device with the phone number it’s sent to will respond (you can send multiple messages to multiple devices practically simultaneously over their separate channels).

Each device is different, but both Meris and CB are all knobs and no digital menus so it’s a bit obscured. If I remember right, Meris has a way to get it into midi channel mode (by powering on while holding certain buttons down or something), and then you turn a certain knob while one of the lights blinks. The number of times it blinks is the number of the midi channel, and once you have it set to the right channel number you release it or power it off. Chase Bliss I think requires you to send a message over a certain channel while holding the two switches down or something like that. Check the manuals, they will clarify that. They might already default to a particular channel. If that’s the case, find out what they are, and if they are already different from each other (the Meris and the CB), then no editing of the pedals is necessary.

So you want to decide the channel for each device, then set them up accordingly in the PBC editor. On the Devices tab, you can add new devices. For each, there’s a place to set the midi channel. Just make sure they match to the pedal. For example, if you set the Meris to midi channel 1 and the MOOD to midi channel 2, in the editor on the devices tab you would reflect that by creating a new device for the Meris and setting the channel
2) What exactly is the "PC" value & how should I set that?
You might do a web search on midi basics, particularly for guitar pedals. That Pedal Show has an episode that’s a decent primer. PC messages are Program Changes, which typically are received by pedals as preset numbers. So say you have a setting on the MOOD you that love and you save it as preset 1. On the PBC, you might have several presets used on different songs where you want to use the MOOD with those same settings. So on the PBC, on any preset where you want to use the MOOD in the same way, you would set it to send PC 1. One thing to be aware of, some pedals start their numbering at 1, and some start at 0. There’s an offset option on the PBC’s devices tab so you can configure accordingly for each device. You might also want to start a notepad, spreadsheet, or something like that to keep track of your pedal presets for easy reference when programming presets on the PBC.

PC messages are a single number sent on a particular channel.

The other main type of midi messages used on pedals is CC, or Control Changes. These are typically received by pedals as individual setting values. For example, the midi spec for the MOOD will give you a CC number that represents a certain knob, and it will be able to also receive a value between 0-127 representing the knob’s position. These will come in handy when you want to tweak just one setting while on a given preset, for example with an expression pedal.

CC messages involve two numbers sent on a particular channel - one is the number representing the parameter you’re accessing and the other representing the value of that parameter.

The cables are all new so my guess is I'm doing something wrong with the settings, but being 100% new to this I'm not really sure what I should be looking for...
It’s unlikely that the cables are faulty, but worth making sure the right cables are in the right places.

It’s a lot to learn but it’s not too bad (and it can be fun). This forum and also the Facebook PBC group are great resources. For questions like this, the FB group might be best because there’s a lot of people there who love to chime in, whereas I find the forum best when I have a really specific question that only Ron of RJM himself would know the answer to (he’s super responsive).
 
A TRS cable has two bands around the plug (as opposed to a regular guitar patch cable, which only has one).


Meris also uses TRS, so I wonder if something is failing at the midibox. Do you have it powered? If I remember correctly the midibox takes a standard 2.1mm 9V center-negative power plug and it has a pretty low current draw, so it should be easy to power from whatever power supply you’re using. Not having power to the midibox could potentially cause the midi messages to not go through. Could be something else, but it’s a start.

Every device has to be set to a channel (1-16 are the available channels), and it will only respond to messages sent on that channel. Every device should have a unique channel, kind of like a phone number. When a message is sent, only the device with the phone number it’s sent to will respond (you can send multiple messages to multiple devices practically simultaneously over their separate channels).

Each device is different, but both Meris and CB are all knobs and no digital menus so it’s a bit obscured. If I remember right, Meris has a way to get it into midi channel mode (by powering on while holding certain buttons down or something), and then you turn a certain knob while one of the lights blinks. The number of times it blinks is the number of the midi channel, and once you have it set to the right channel number you release it or power it off. Chase Bliss I think requires you to send a message over a certain channel while holding the two switches down or something like that. Check the manuals, they will clarify that. They might already default to a particular channel. If that’s the case, find out what they are, and if they are already different from each other (the Meris and the CB), then no editing of the pedals is necessary.

So you want to decide the channel for each device, then set them up accordingly in the PBC editor. On the Devices tab, you can add new devices. For each, there’s a place to set the midi channel. Just make sure they match to the pedal. For example, if you set the Meris to midi channel 1 and the MOOD to midi channel 2, in the editor on the devices tab you would reflect that by creating a new device for the Meris and setting the channel

You might do a web search on midi basics, particularly for guitar pedals. That Pedal Show has an episode that’s a decent primer. PC messages are Program Changes, which typically are received by pedals as preset numbers. So say you have a setting on the MOOD you that love and you save it as preset 1. On the PBC, you might have several presets used on different songs where you want to use the MOOD with those same settings. So on the PBC, on any preset where you want to use the MOOD in the same way, you would set it to send PC 1. One thing to be aware of, some pedals start their numbering at 1, and some start at 0. There’s an offset option on the PBC’s devices tab so you can configure accordingly for each device. You might also want to start a notepad, spreadsheet, or something like that to keep track of your pedal presets for easy reference when programming presets on the PBC.

PC messages are a single number sent on a particular channel.

The other main type of midi messages used on pedals is CC, or Control Changes. These are typically received by pedals as individual setting values. For example, the midi spec for the MOOD will give you a CC number that represents a certain knob, and it will be able to also receive a value between 0-127 representing the knob’s position. These will come in handy when you want to tweak just one setting while on a given preset, for example with an expression pedal.

CC messages involve two numbers sent on a particular channel - one is the number representing the parameter you’re accessing and the other representing the value of that parameter.


It’s unlikely that the cables are faulty, but worth making sure the right cables are in the right places.

It’s a lot to learn but it’s not too bad (and it can be fun). This forum and also the Facebook PBC group are great resources. For questions like this, the FB group might be best because there’s a lot of people there who love to chime in, whereas I find the forum best when I have a really specific question that only Ron of RJM himself would know the answer to (he’s super responsive).
Thank you for this detailed response!

I checked the cables and they do have 2 bands, so guessing they're fine. The midibox itself has a power light which is very well lit so I'm assuming that's fine too.

So my assumption is I'm not figuring out how to set the MIDI channels right. In the video Ron made (above) it shows him holding down the 2 CB buttons together. For the Mood (which has 2 preset slots on its own) to save presets to the pedal you hold down one button for 3 seconds then both for 3 seconds... but I'm not sure if that's true for saving to an external device?

I'm going to email the guys at CB and see if they can help. Good to know about Meris also having its own way to set the channels, I guess that will be my next step to figuring things out after I get the Mood up and running.

If anyone else here has specific programming experience with the Mood or Meris pedals and can let me know how I set the MIDI channel that'd be great!
 
Saving presets is different than setting the MIDI channel, and you can't save presets (beyond the first 2) without setting the MIDI channel. Once the channel is set and MIDI communication is established, the process for saving a preset is the same, except that you need to select presets on the Mastermind at the right time.

Didi you follow the MIDI channel setting procedure from the video exactly? I have not ever used a Mood, but if it's like their other pedals, it requires a very specific sequence of everts to happen in order for the MIDI channel to be set correctly.
 
Saving presets is different than setting the MIDI channel, and you can't save presets (beyond the first 2) without setting the MIDI channel. Once the channel is set and MIDI communication is established, the process for saving a preset is the same, except that you need to select presets on the Mastermind at the right time.

Didi you follow the MIDI channel setting procedure from the video exactly? I have not ever used a Mood, but if it's like their other pedals, it requires a very specific sequence of everts to happen in order for the MIDI channel to be set correctly.
Thanks, I did follow the channel setting exactly, but it must be different than the tonal recall.
 
It's hard to debug with a pedal that doesn't have standard MIDI or any type of display. The best approach is by creating Device PC- and PC+ buttons as in the video. The LED on the Mood should change color when you switch between presets 0, 1 and 2. Try it, then if it doesn't respond, change the channel for the Mood device in the Devices tab, but don't try changing the channel on the pedal. Try using Device - and + again with the new channel. Repeat for each channel - if it doesn't respond to any of the 16 channels, you have a communication problem. You could have a bad cable, the MIDIBox's internal jumper setting could be wrong, things like that.
 
It's hard to debug with a pedal that doesn't have standard MIDI or any type of display. The best approach is by creating Device PC- and PC+ buttons as in the video. The LED on the Mood should change color when you switch between presets 0, 1 and 2. Try it, then if it doesn't respond, change the channel for the Mood device in the Devices tab, but don't try changing the channel on the pedal. Try using Device - and + again with the new channel. Repeat for each channel - if it doesn't respond to any of the 16 channels, you have a communication problem. You could have a bad cable, the MIDIBox's internal jumper setting could be wrong, things like that.
Ok, I think I did this right and no luck. I also tried to follow the Meris MIDI setup which is a little more clear & couldn't get those to register the PC changes either... so I guess it is something in the cable or the box then? The jumper settings on the box are very clear so I don't think it's that (it has the jumpers outside and a diagram for each pedal type including Meris and CB). I unfortunately don't have another MIDI cable to test but I guess that would be the next logical thing to look at...
 
Actually I take that back, the Meris pedal does seem to be recognizing the PC changes. So it's really just the Mood giving me a hard time I think...
 
Yea so after playing for way too many hours tonight, I was able to get 2 Meris pedals working no problem (and now understand a lot more about the functionality, so good exercise) but have yet to get the Mood functioning. I tried the TRS cable that was in the Mood in one of the Meris pedals and it worked fine, so it's not any cables. I swapped the input on the midibox 4 to one of the Meris ones to test that and it still doesn't work... so guessing the problem is either the Mood itself or how it's interacting with the PBC 10. I've tried every MIDI channel but nothing is finding it.

Kind of out of ideas, I guess I'll wait for CB to get back to me.
 
BTW, if I recall correctly, Meris and Chase Bliss pedals are wired differently. A TRS port that's configured for Meris will not work for Chase Bliss and vice versa. There are jumpers inside the box that control whether each port is configured for Chase Bliss or Empress/Meris. You'll need to Mae sure one port on the MIDIBox is set differently to the others, and use that one for the Mood.
 
BTW, if I recall correctly, Meris and Chase Bliss pedals are wired differently. A TRS port that's configured for Meris will not work for Chase Bliss and vice versa. There are jumpers inside the box that control whether each port is configured for Chase Bliss or Empress/Meris. You'll need to Mae sure one port on the MIDIBox is set differently to the others, and use that one for the Mood.
Yes you're correct, and I do have each channel set correctly (at least according to the Disaster Area instructions which are right on the midibox).

I'm sort of at a loss, still haven't received a reply from Chase Bliss.
 
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