Tempo starts dropping when PBC muted

Jonn

Jonn

Active Member
I have my PBC set as the MIDI Clock master and my song tempos set per song on the PBC. When I select the first preset of a new song, the tempo is set correctly on my Timeline. But if I click my PBC mute button, the tempo on the Timeline starts dropping and stays at whatever tempo it has dropped to when I click the mute button on the PBC again (unmute).

Anyone else notice this? Any suggestion on what I should change to stop this from happening? I'm on firmware 4.0.8, but I first noticed this behavior on 3.1.10 - was hoping it would disappear after updating to 4.0.8, but it did not.
 
Jonn said:
I have my PBC set as the MIDI Clock master and my song tempos set per song on the PBC. When I select the first preset of a new song, the tempo is set correctly on my Timeline. But if I click my PBC mute button, the tempo on the Timeline starts dropping and stays at whatever tempo it has dropped to when I click the mute button on the PBC again (unmute).

Anyone else notice this? Any suggestion on what I should change to stop this from happening? I'm on firmware 4.0.8, but I first noticed this behavior on 3.1.10 - was hoping it would disappear after updating to 4.0.8, but it did not.
Click to expand...

Define "starts dropping". Like, all at once? Or slowly? Can you post your file so I can take a look?
 
Starts dropping: tempo slowly drifts downward until the PBC is unmuted. Here's a quick-n-dirty video showing it:

Attached are both my latest 3.1 and 4.0 settings. I figured out a work around in 4.0.8, where I set the preset tempos to "Song" and the "Preset 2nd Press" setting to "Reload"... the tempo still drops while muted, but then returns to the song defined tempo when I click the preset again. Unfortunately, I'm having other issues with 4.0 and have rolled the PBC back to 3.1.10, where i have yet to find a work around.
 

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That's so weird. I just had a quick look at your 4.08 settings and I see a couple things that are different from my setup, or that I would try changing first:
- Tuner button: remove the TL and BS commands
- Devices: uncheck "send redundant PC's"

I'm not sure if either of those can cause the issues you're seeing (the mute button commands for the TL and BS are likely candidates), but I don't think either of those settings are necessary.

Curious, is your "wild pony" preset a Taylor Johnson preset?
 
I don't think I've run into that before, but to be fair, I may not have thought to test that case. The tuner takes a lot of CPU power to run, so it may not be able to keep up with the tempo. I'll see if I can make some adjustments.
 
boyce89976 said:
That's so weird. I just had a quick look at your 4.08 settings and I see a couple things that are different from my setup, or that I would try changing first:
- Tuner button: remove the TL and BS commands
- Devices: uncheck "send redundant PC's"

I'm not sure if either of those can cause the issues you're seeing (the mute button commands for the TL and BS are likely candidates), but I don't think either of those settings are necessary.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking a look! I suspected the mute commands too and removed them early on, but they make no difference. They're there because I run the strymon pedals after the PBC and so I bypass them as part of the Mute. But the tempo still drops even without them there.

Tempo also drops without "send redundant PC's" - I added that while looking for a work around.

boyce89976 said:
Curious, is your "wild pony" preset a Taylor Johnson preset?
Click to expand...

Yes, nice spot. Big fan of Taylor Johnson's work. It was a preset I built for the Phil Wickham song "Better Than Life" and found it to be a nice changeup preset in my "goto"s.

Thanks again for looking and comparing with your own. Let me know if you think of anything else.
 
rjmmusic said:
I don't think I've run into that before, but to be fair, I may not have thought to test that case. The tuner takes a lot of CPU power to run, so it may not be able to keep up with the tempo. I'll see if I can make some adjustments.
Click to expand...

Thank you Ron!
 
I'll bet something like Ron said....if you notice in the video, the H9 does the same thing at the same time. Something is changing the overall clock, not just the Timeline. I rarely use the tuner on the PBC, but I'll check mine later tonight to see if it does the same thing. Never tried it before....
 
Ah, yes! I used to use an "always on" tuner coming out of my volume pedal (between loops 6 & 7), but wanted to get another pedal on the board (alway, just one more) and bumped the tuner. I've been happily using the PBC tuner since.

Ron - at least in my use case, I don't mind if the MIDI clock drops or stops altogether when I'm muted/tuning. As long as the MIDI clock starts sending the correct tempo again when I unmute, I'm good.
 
Ah, ok, I missed that in the first read thru. That definitely shouldn't happen, something is happening to the internal timer. I'll investigate.
 
Just checked mine and my tempo holds steady...My setup is obviously different though. As far as MIDI goes, I have the PBC, BigSky, Timeline, Mobius, and a programmable EQ. However, I assume that it wouldn't matter "how many" pedals I have that are looking for the tempo...point is...I'm sending the tempo out (Timeline is clearly receiving it) and when I mute/tuner the tempo holds.

Weird though....nothing in your settings looks crazy to me. I don't use the Bypass thing when I tune, but if you tried it without that and it still does it...I got nothing. o_O
 
Jonn said:
Yes, nice spot. Big fan of Taylor Johnson's work. It was a preset I built for the Phil Wickham song "Better Than Life" and found it to be a nice changeup preset in my "goto"s.

Thanks again for looking and comparing with your own. Let me know if you think of anything else.
Click to expand...
Nice hommage! I'm a huge fan of his too. He's a much better player than he gets credit for. I really love his ear for melody and the way he moves around chordally.
 
Well, that was an interesting one. The problem only happens when you have a tap tempo button on an external switch. Fixed in 4.0.9.
 
Confirmed! 4.0.9 has fixed my dropping-MIDI-clock-tempo-when-muted problem.

Thank you @boyce89976 and @shoelesscraig for your help troubleshooting. And endless thank yous to you @rjmmusic for the amazing products and excellent support.

And @boyce89976, yes, I completely agree. Few can do what Taylor Johnson can do.
 
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