Help with Meris Enzo (Again)

[eveningsempire]

Hey All:

I've read all of the various Meris Enzo midi posts on this forum and none of them seem to describe my situation. I'm getting close to just selling the Enzo because it's such a hassle to get its midi to work. I have a PBC6X with a standard midi cable running out of the midi into Meris's I/O midi box. From that I have a TRS cable going to the Enzo. I've followed the Meris Enzo manual and set the midi channel to 8, set it up to receive midi, and have tried it on both Midi Out and Midi Thru mode. I have also used the Preset Editor (which is awesome in concept and has some great preset sounds).

enzo editor librarian - Google Search

The problem comes when I try to send program changes and built presets in my PBC6x that would change the preset on the enzo. I have tried sending PC changes to change from numbers 0 to 16 and it never gets the Enzo to load a different preset, but I see the enzo change patches when I do it. But the filter is closed and it's not the preset it should be. I feel like I'm somehow sending out additional CC messages or other midi that is overloading the Enzo.

I know that the Enzo is receiving midi, because via CC messages I am able to bypass it on and off. But PC messages just don't seem to be working.

Do I need to turn on or off 'send redundant pcs' or change the bank type from None to something else?

Separately when using the Editor I can change/send midi to the Enzo and change/demo the patches using the editor, but when I connect the enzo it won't read the preset names/info. I feel like the Enzo's bidirectional midi over TRS and/or overall midi implementation sucks, even with the Meris build I/O box.

I've also tried setting up a new page on my PBC that has separate buttons for PC - and PC + commands to go to the Enzo, and it doesn't do anything. I get the same putzed out patch (which isn't any of hte presets) on the Enzo.

Any thoughts/help would be most welcome. I feel like if I could only solve this midi implementation the presets/sounds the Enzo is capable of making would open a ton of possibilities for live/soloing, etc.

 

[eveningsempire]

I'm going to attempt to use my DAW to manually send PC messages, as the RJM doesn't seem to be doing the trick for some reason. Will update.

 

[eveningsempire]

Still no dice. I'm beginning to think somehow my Midi setup isn't sufficient.

I saw this thread:

Reading MIDI Input from the PBC6X

For my new Meris pedal, I'll likely purchase the Midi I/O box. I'm just wondering if it's possible to connect the PBC6X to my iMac, and read/write the presets and store locally (there is an Editor and Librarian software I intend to use). This would perhaps save purchasing an additional device...

www.rjmmusic.com

I have USB coming from my computer into the PBC 6X. I have a standard midi cable running out of the PBC 6X midi out to several standard midi din pedals (all set to midi through) then to a Meris Midi I/O box which in turn have TRS cables running into the Enzo (and Strymon Deco and Empress Reverb). The Deco and Reverb work flawlessly. The Enzo is being a complete pain. I can send CC messages to it to bypass it, but none of the Enzo editors seem to be able read device from it, nor do I seem to be able to save new presets or switch presets - PC changes just don't work, either via preset changes on the pbc or when using a special button setup to send PC+ or - to the Enzo specifically. So I'm left with a single preset sound on the enzo. I've emailed Meris to see if they can help. I've also attempted to enable the Midi Forward in the PBC's midi options. In that thread above you suggested I needed a Midi Y cable to run both from the PBC6X to the in and out of the Meris I/O box.

Two questions: (1) Do you think that will solve the issue? and (2), if it does, how can I get standard DIN midi to the rest of my pedals? since there won't be a midi through at that point after the Meris I/O box since both the In and Out will be connected via the Y to the PBC. Do I need some kind of splitter cable on the Midi Out part of the Y cable?

(Jesus why can't Meris just make these pedals with normal midi implementation).

 

[rjmmusic]

I had a look at your settings and they seem fairly straightforward. If the Device PC- and PC+ buttons are not controlling the Enzo, then there's something wrong at a low level. Things like MIDI Forward or other settings are not going to help.

Here are some possible problems I can think of:

- The cable or the output from the MIDI I/O box is bad. You can test for this by pulling the MIDI TRS cable from one of the other pedals (that's known to be working) and plugging it into the Enzo. See if it starts working.
- The Enzo isn't actually set to channel 8 - double check this
- The Enzo's TRS MIDI port isn't working, or the TRS port is not configured for MIDI

 

[eveningsempire]

Thanks so much for the response. What a pain.

I had to get a different cable to get the Empress to work with the Midi I/O box:

Empress:This cable is designed to work specifically with the Meris MIDI I/O and Empress pedals. If you do not have a Meris MIDI I/O, please do not order this cable.

Tip and Ring will be tied together on the midibox side, and only the tip connects on the Empress side. This cable is directional, but each end will be labeled so you know which end goes where.

TRS Cable - Audio or MIDI

This cable is a great choice for audio, control signals, or MIDI. Anywhere you need TRS cables on your board, this will work for you. Get MIDI flowing between your controller and your TRS MIDI enabled pedals from manufacturers like Chase Bliss, Empress, and Meris. Three different plug options...

alphatone.com

I'll see if swapping the trs cable fixes it, but I'm doubtful. Re: the Enzo, the Enzo requires bi-directional midi, which I am informed the Midi I/O box does, and I believe the RJM PBC6X is capable of.

Separate theory - User Error (Watch it be this one):
I think I may need to be holding down the alt button on the Enzo when sending PC messages in order to get it to work. That's how the Chase Bliss Brothers pedal (another pedal I'm eyeing) handles its preset setting - you dial in your preset then hold down both buttons and send a PC message to it for the preset number you want that to be. Meris's Enzo manual section on midi could be a bit clearer, so I can't tell if I need to be doing this as well or what. The editors all suggest you can just dial in the presets and then hit 'save' and it should work, but perhaps i need to be holding down Alt or something else on the pedal when hitting 'save' or do it more granularly and send a single PC message to save the presets 1 by 1.

This is from the Enzo manual:

The Enzo features 16 internal preset locations. The first four presets are accessible by a compatible 4 button footswitch and all sixteen presets are accessible by MIDI Program Change messages. To save a preset simply hold the Alt button. The preset is saved every time you edit the “Alt”/2nd layer knobs, this is how the Enzo is able to keep your synth settings in its memory after a power down. To save a preset to a different location than your current location, either press the desired preset button on a compatible 4 button footswitch or send a Program Change message over MIDI to which ever preset you would like to edit. After you are done with any changes, just press and hold the “Alt” button to save. The Enzo can send and receive full presets for via MIDI Sysex Data. To send a preset from the Enzo to your computer by pressing the Bypass LED switch while holding the Alt button. The Enzo is always listening for preset data, so simply send any presets you have backed up on your PC back to the Enzo and it will overwrite that preset with the data you sent. If you are happy with the newly received preset, simply press Alt and the Enzo will save that data to the current preset location.

I'm not sure if this means exactly because of the way it's worded, but I'll try holding down Alt and sending individual PC number changes tonight.

The ongoing toils..will experiment more tonight.

 

[George]

Out of curiosity how many MIDI devices are in front of this pedal? I'm not sure about Ron's experience but I seem to have issues if I string together more than 5 MIDI devices daisy-chained together i.e. Controller MIDI Out - Pedal#1 MIDI Out - Pedal#2 MIDI In - Pedal#2 MIDI Out - Pedal #3, 4, 5, etc. Also some MIDI inputs wont function properly if the USB is connected (Eventide H9's come to mind).

More commonly I've run into situations associated with MIDI patch cord conflicts where a pedal needs a Type "B" TRS vs a Type "A" TRS pinout. Something you mentioned in your post. Have you asked the Meris (or have they spec'd) which type of TRS you need? From the MIDI Association's MIDI Standard (Type "A").



Specification for use of TRS Connectors with MIDI Devices [RP-054] Abstract: This document defines how to wire “TRS” (tip-ring-sleeve) connectors for use with MIDI devices, and describes the necessary device circuitry and cable specifications to support MIDI communication over the TRS connection. Background: The inclination towards smaller hardware devices has made it increasingly difficult to make use of DIN connectors for MIDI In/Out in the past few years. Many manufacturers have chosen to use 2.5mm or 3.5mm “TRS” connectors instead. But since there was no specification for wiring a TRS MIDI connection, the situation exists where two devices may not have chosen the same wiring scheme, so compatibility between devices is not known. By specifying the pin-out for the TRS connection, and also the connectors for the adapter cable, we can ensure greater interoperability between TRS and DIN MIDI devices. Details: (1) Pin-out Correspondence:The following TRS to DIN drawing illustrates the wiring for a female TRS connector in comparison to a female MIDI-DIN connector (it is expected that devices will use female TRS connectors).

Type "A"
View attachment 2625


Type "B"

 

[eveningsempire]

Ok, so I was able to solve this enough finally so I'm posting this here in case anyone else ever has this problem. It turns out the problem was the special type of Midi cable that the Empress Reverb requires (Tip and Ring tied together on the midibox side, and only the tip connects on the Empress side) I had unwittingly placed that Empress cable in front of the other two TRS-midi cables (to the deco strymon and the enzo) in the order (Note that the Meris I/O TRS inputs are labeled 1 through 4) and I think by doing so I somehow messed up the bi-directional midi that the Enzo apparently requires. Kind of odd that I could still send CC successfully to the Enzo, and that my Deco worked 100% despite them both being placed after the Reverb in the chain, but once I either removed the Empress Reverb midi cable completely OR placed it in the 4 input slot on the Meris I/O, the problem cleared up and I've now got a 100% responsive midi chain that can received PC messages. I programmed the Enzo by unplugging the I/O box and running a usb to midi in/out directly to the meris i/o box. I'll see in the future if I can program it using the midi through of the RJM mastermind, but even if that doesn't work, I've at least found a way to program the Enzo and if nothing else will be able to use it going forward.

Phew. What a hassle.

Thanks for both of your responses and thoughts.

 

[rjmmusic]

Thanks for letting us know. Hopefully, this will help someone out in the future.