Controlling an Eventide Eclipse with a MM LT?

Hi! Has anyone ever used an MM LT with an Eventide Eclipse? I'm having trouble doing what should be some very basic things. It definitely sees the device, since I can use PC messages to change entire presets in the Eclipse. I'm not trying to operate it that way, since there is always a brief lag when changing presets in the Eclipse. Also, I'm not sure I'm doing that correctly anyway, since I can make it switch presets on the Eclipse while in the Edit Presets mode of the MM LT, but it doesn't actually seem to work when I exit out and switch back and forth between presets on the MM LT. But, I digress...

What I'm really trying to do is use the MM LT to control parameters within the preset that is currently loaded in the Eclipse. Apparently, what people do is send MIDI commands to do things like increase modulation rate, or delay length, or adjust the "send" of the effect. This way, changes can be instantaneous.

But I'm lost as to how to do this. I can't even figure out how to get the MM LT to send CC to any of my devices. All it will do is show me PC.
 
The Eclipse is difficult to work with because there are no predefined CCs for it - every parameter mapping has to be set up manually.

You can do it, though, but it does take some work. There are a couple of different ways to accomplish it.

If you are always using 2 or 3 settings of a particular parameter, then setting up an IA button would be the best choice. You can always use the button manually, but you can also program it to turn on or off automatically for each preset in the LT. I recommend having a look at our Mastering the Mastermind videos on Youtube for more information.

If you want to set up multiple LT presets that call up different parameters on one Eclipse preset, and each preset would need to have completely different values for each parameter, you could use preset actions. Within the Presets tab, there's a Preset Actions sub-tab there, and you could add CC actions to that list. These will automatically be sent when you select each preset.
 
Okay, so, I made some decent progress tonight with the Eclipse. After diving into MIDI mapping, I am able to reliably change presets using MIDI PC. Furthermore, if all of the presets I switch between are setup with Xfade, and I set the Xfade time to the lowest possible setting, the lag is honestly not that bad. It seems like it may not be that noticeable. I'd want another week with it to decide if I would use it that way live, but it's very promising so far.

However, this does mean I'm not taking full advantage of the functionality that the Eclipse has to offer. It limits me from using algorithms in both effects blocks, since that will cause noticeable lag when changing presets. Really, I need to get the CC thing sorted out. I can add CC to the MM LT presets, pretty easily. But the issue I'm having is on the Eclipse side. I'm going to try to get on a call with Eventide directly and see if they can help me work through it.
 
The Eclipse is difficult to work with because there are no predefined CCs for it - every parameter mapping has to be set up manually.

You can do it, though, but it does take some work. There are a couple of different ways to accomplish it.

If you are always using 2 or 3 settings of a particular parameter, then setting up an IA button would be the best choice. You can always use the button manually, but you can also program it to turn on or off automatically for each preset in the LT. I recommend having a look at our Mastering the Mastermind videos on Youtube for more information.

If you want to set up multiple LT presets that call up different parameters on one Eclipse preset, and each preset would need to have completely different values for each parameter, you could use preset actions. Within the Presets tab, there's a Preset Actions sub-tab there, and you could add CC actions to that list. These will automatically be sent when you select each preset.

I heard back from Eventide tech support. This is the reply:

"Hello,

You can use MIDI CC to control most parameters. There are two main steps for getting this to work. First you will need to set up the incoming MIDI CC message from your MIDI controller as an external controller. Hit SETUP three times until you see EXTERNAL on a soft key and select that. Then pick any ext # that you want to assign this pedal to and press the soft key. Change the source to equal the proper MIDI CC number. See the manual for more info on this topic. You can have up to 16 of these on the Eclipse and each one will need to be set up separately. You can then use this external controller to control a parameter on a preset. To assign the external controller, select a preset, find the parameter you want to control, then press and hold the corresponding soft key until a new screen comes on the display. Then select MODULATE. Now select the ext# you assigned to the MIDI CC to as the source and make any adjustments on this screen to that effect. You will need to do this to every preset that you want that external controller to be used on."



The problem is, I'd already gotten that far. I've already been able to assign Ext 1 as a MIDI controller. And I've already been able to patch the parameter I want to modulate to Ext 1. The problems I'm running into here are:

• According to the manual, you have to "Select the external controller you want to “connect” with (SOURCE)". That's all well and good, but of the MIDI related options, I have 23 different options:

- mod wheel MIDI control message 1 - typically assigned to the mod wheel on a MIDI keyboard.
- breath con MIDI control message 2 - typically assigned to the breath controller on a MIDI keyboard.
- foot con MIDI control message 4 - typically assigned to the foot controller on a MIDI keyboard.
- damper Triggers when a damper control message (MIDI control message 64) is received with damper = 1.
- portamento Triggers when a portamento control message (MIDI control message 65) is received with portamento = 1.
- sostenuto Triggers when a sostenuto control message (MIDI control message 66) is received with sostenuto = 1.
- soft Triggers when a soft control message (MIDI control message 67) is received with soft = 1.
- hold 2 Triggers when a “hold 2” control message (MIDI control message 69) is received with “hold 2” = 1.
- volume MIDI control message 7 - typically assigned to volume changes.
- balance MIDI control message 8 - typically assigned to balance.
- pan MIDI control message 10 - typically assigned to panning.
- expression MIDI control message 11 - typically assigned to the expression controller on a MIDI keyboard.
- general 1 – 8 MIDI control messages 16 through 23.
- MIDI single Allows selection of any MIDI control number with coarse quantization. Input range is 0 to 127. A third parameter appears, (CNTRL), which selects the controller number to be used.
- MIDI double Allows selection of any MIDI control number with very fine quantization. Input range is 0 to 16,383. A third parameter appears, (CNTRL), which selects the controller number to be used. Your choices for con are 0 to 31. The MIDI control number con will pass the “coarse” value for the modulation and the MIDI control number (CNTRL) + 32 will pass the “fine” value for the modulation.
- chan pressur MIDI channel pressure message.
- pitch wheel MIDI pitch bend message.
- note on MIDI keyboard note number. Middle C on an 88-note keyboard gives a value of “60.”
- Note switch Triggers when a MIDI note on event is received.
- MIDI program Triggers when a MIDI program change message is received.
- MIDI clock Modulates as a function of the BPM (beats per minute) of a MIDI clock signal. The value of this external controller is input_BPM / 480 = value so 120BPM yields a value of 0.25, 96BPM yields a value of 0.2, and so on. This MIDI message is channel-independent.
- MIDI start Triggers when a MIDI start command is received. This MIDI command is channel independent.
- MIDI stop Triggers when a MIDI stop command is received. This MIDI command is channel independent.


I tried using MIDI Single. That is working for a forum member on The Gear Page with his expression pedal. But, I'm not using an expression pedal. I'm just using the Mastermind LT. I just want to trigger instant changes when I switch presets on the MM LT.

• The other issue I'm having is, I can send CC to the Eclipse with preset changes on the MM LT, but I don't know what to send.

I was able to get it to respond the other night to CC commands using MIDI Single, but all it was doing was globally muting the send of all effects. Also, I couldn't get it to tie to a preset, only a separate IA button.

I know I'm missing something basic here. So far, I think you and Eventide have explained it similarly, but I think there may be an assumption that I understand this more than I actually do. I know I can get there, but there is something major that I am missing, and I can't find the explanation for.
 
Latest from Eventide support:

"It appears that you are having a problem with the MIDI CC numbers and how they are displayed on the Eclipse. I agree, this isn't very intuitive and it is confusing. I find using the below MIDI CC numbers work best.

general 1 – 8 MIDI control messages 16 through 23.

general 1 = MIDI CC 16
general 2 = MIDI CC 17
general 3 = MIDI CC 18
etc.

Try using those settings and setting your MIDI controller to send those MIDI CC numbers and let me know what happens."



I'll be trying this tonight, and seeing what happens!
 
Back
Top