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PBC 6X into HX Stomp’s FX loop??

Discussion in 'PBC General Discussion' started by Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre

    Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre
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    Hi guys, and Ron!

    I’ve been a long time user of the original PBC and I still have it on my huge space craft of a pedal board. I am now trying to create a very versatile fly rig with the 6x.

    I have a good idea of where I’m going with this and I have help from a competent tech guy but, I wanted to share my idea and what other knowledgeable people would think of this.

    So first, see here the unwired project as it is today (the rods are from a previous version of the board, we'll take 'em out) :
    IMG_4982.JPG

    Pretty basic and yet, powerful. My idea is to be able to use the HX Stomp in a few ways with the help of the PBC. Now, here comes the tricky part, I want to be able to use my drive pedals in different positions (pre/post) considering whatever modulation I might be using in the HX.

    I am thinking of using the whole PBC as an insert to the HX's FX loop. This way, for instance, I could have like a "vibe" block fist, then the FX loop block with one of the drives (say loop 2) on, then amp/cab (maybe), delay and rev in the HX and out to the PA or an amp through its own outputs.

    How does that sound?

    Here's the wiring we thought about :
    IMG_4983.JPG


    It would go like this :
    Loop 1 - EGO COMP
    L 2 - HX Send
    L 3 - NOBELS
    L 4 - Tonedrive (custom made awesome drive)
    L 5 - The DUDE
    L 6 - Dunlop volume pedal
    L 7 - Return to HX
    The Dunlop volume pedal also has an aux output which will be used as the expression pedal for the HX.

    So, what do you guys think? Makes sens? Anybody has a different idea?

    Let me know, I'd like to read your input.

    Dimitri
     
  2. PianoMan

    PianoMan
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    I think I understand what you're doing, and the PBC in the HX Stomp FX loop sounds like it will work for what you're trying to do. I'm not sure why you're showing the Stomp using two loops for individual send and return though. First because there shouldn't be any need to run the Stomp in the PBC Loops, as you'll be able to move the PBC pedals to pre/post position inside the Stomp already, so your method just makes it more complicated than it needs to be. Secondly because each loop has a send and return if its own, so running the send from one loop to the return of another loop will flat out not work. If I'm understanding your objective correctly, you should be running Guitar>HX Stomp Input>FX Loop Send to PBC Input>FX Loop Return from PBC Output>HX Stomp Output.
     
  3. Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre

    Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre
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    Thanks PianoMan, I think you’re right. Exactly why I thought it’d be a good idea to post here. I’ll post the final result
     
    PianoMan likes this.
  4. Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre

    Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre
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    Here it is, if anybody wanted to see. So far, so good! A lot of programming to do but, I knew what I was getting into. Only thing I'm not impressed with so far is the Dunlop DVP4. I use it in the insert loop for volume and into the HX for expression purposes as well. The thing I don't like is the volume jump when doing swells. I goes from very low to full volume in like, the last 10% of the traveling. See what I mean? I wonder if it has to do with its position...?

    EDIT : I tested the volume pedal all by itself, it worked just fine. What can the issue be then when I plug it back into the insert of the PBC. Does it have to do with the buffer?

    Other than that, very happy with the board and the PBC6x! IMG_4430.JPG
     
    #4 Dimitri LeBel-Alexandre, Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  5. kitemonkey

    kitemonkey
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    I went the exact opposite approach and put the HX Stomp onto it's own loop, acting as a swiss army knife of effects. Great little box!
     
  6. rjmmusic

    rjmmusic
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    I haven't heard of this happening before, but the buffer would be a logical place to start investigating. Can you temporarily use a different loop for the volume pedal and see if the the results are any different?
     
  7. REFAGAEM

    REFAGAEM
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    Hi

    i would like to use one preamp loop of PBC Mastermind (mono ) before the input of my amp ( Victory V 40 Deluxe) for mod, disto, an others mono effects..

    and if it's possible using a stereo loop of PBC in parallel, to delay, reverb with kill dry engaged, one path return to amp, the other to mixing deskwith an IR at last..

    I'm a little lost with the routing in the stomp

    hope i'm clear, my english is very limited so do you think it would be possible
    Thanks
     
  8. rjmmusic

    rjmmusic
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    Yes, you can do that. On a Mastermind PBC/10, you can use Output A to go to the amp and Output B to the mixing desk. The effect has to be in Loop 10.

    On a Mastermind PBC/6, you'll need to use any of loops 4-6 and will also need a Mini Line Mixer. Loop send connects to the effect input, the PBC's output goes to the dry input of the mixer. The pedal outputs go to the mixer inputs and the mixer outputs can go to the amp and the mixing desk.
     
  9. REFAGAEM

    REFAGAEM
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  10. Jeremia Berndtsson

    Jeremia Berndtsson
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    Hi!

    Would love to have an explanation of your signal chain, Dimitri! I am looking for something just like this.

    How did you manage to fix the volume pedal problem?
     
  11. Tommi

    Tommi
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    I have the hx in a pbc/6 loop before the amp's preamp as well as in the amp's loop where I use it for post effects (delay, reverb etc) and master volume. What this gives me is:

    * Ability to use the HX for pre-preamp effects such as compressor, drive, boost, etc.
    * Use the hx for time based effects post preamp.
    * Bypass the amp's preamp and use a hx preamp instead (effectively giving me a multi channel amp).
    * Bypass the hx effects before the amp completely so that I go direct to the amp or direct to other pedals etc (e.g. a finicky fuzz, od pedal, or when I want to play on the dynamics of the amp without a buffer).
    * Control the master volume for all cases.

    Using the DVP4 directly with the HX, is tricky. Even once you get it working (only one of the exp works, you have to invert tip/sleeve and set the dvp4 to 'ring' internally), the sweep can be horrible.

    Note that if you use a volume block in the HX, controlling that block with the expression pedal seems to work OK. However, I'm already spending a block on the fx-loop in the HX, so I didn't want to spend another block on volume. Instead I'm controlling the master volume output via midi cc that's sent from the PBC/6. The DVP4 works great with the pbc and the pbc additionally allows you to customize the sweep.

    For a second expression pedal, mostly controlling fx mix, I connect another dvp4 to the hx. That seems to be working fine and fx mix is a less sensitive thing for me than the overall volume (besides, I can configure the modifiable range to be modest).

    Overall I feel that this is a super versatile and well sounding setup, without compromising. It's also incredibly compact. The only thing that has been disappointing is how incompatible the HX and DVP4 are and I would have loved to just connect both my expression pedals directly to the PBC.

    So... RJM - given that you recently performed magic by giving us several extra loops via a config setting, is there any chance that the 'EXT SW' jack could be re-configured to be a second expression pedal? :-D
     
  12. Jeremia Berndtsson

    Jeremia Berndtsson
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    Thank you!

    Great info that it is tricky to use it straight to HX Stomp, I tried that and the sweep was sooo bad. :(

    Yeah, got to be careful what to fill those blocks with, haha.
    How does it work to set the Dunlop Mini to be both volume and expression?

    I guess you can't plug HX Stomp straight to FOH in this case?
    I really want to have the possibility to have my octave, fuzz and wah from HX Stomp pre my overdrives (real pedals.) But also I want to have my delay and reverb in a FX Loop so I can put them after my Amp+IR setting in HX Stomp and still go out to FOH directly from HX Stomp.. Can't figure it out, haha.
     
    #12 Jeremia Berndtsson, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:28 AM
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019 at 7:57 AM
  13. Tommi

    Tommi
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    Sorry for the delay - busy vacationing! :D

    In my case, I have a Torpedo CABM just before the cab that I use to go straight to FOH. I feel that's working great, but of course it's one additional piece of gear, but it does include my poweramp as part of the sound.

    Having said that, using the HX stomp to go straight to FOH should also be possible. I think you could even pan a cab block specifically so that the output of it goes to one output while the other would go to your amp+cab on stage.

    What you want to do, should be possible and it sounds like how I've got things set up now. When I get back to my pedal board I'll reply with some information about the exact routing.

    Oh a couple of more things...

    I played around some more with the DVP4 pedals (I have two) and wasn't really happy with the sweep I got with the PBC either - even with playing with the X+Y slope parameters. So I tried another expression pedal that I have, from Mission, and that seems to be working better. So I'm using that pedal to control the volume. I did get both of the DVP4's working as expression pedals for the HX though. So now I have 3 :-| Two for effects (most often wet/dry mix for rev+dly and wah/pitch), and one for master volume.

    For controlling the master volume, I assigned the volume expression controller to the 'return' in the effects loop block on the HX. This is post preamps and before reverb, delay. That makes things like swells play nice with time based effects and doesn't affect the basic tone (drives and such). Works great and I still didn't have to spend a block on it :)
     

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