PBC/Multibox MIDI Routing Issues

[PianoMan]

I've working on finalizing my fairly complex MIDI setup on my new(ish) pedalboard, but I'm having some trouble with the MIDI routing in the Multibox, and it's causing me some issues that I just can't seem to figure out. Here's a rough diagram of how I want the MIDI to be routed through my setup, with arrows showing which way the MIDI signals should be going (IE: no bidirectional unless shown).



For this rig, the PBC is the heart of the rig and is what I use 95% of the time in live play. The HX Stomp has a couple constant FX programmed, but I have a number of presets that change out 1-2 of those FX at a time. It additionally uses an aux switch to send MIDI signals to the PBC to make it bank through songs. The MC6 mainly gives me instant access to pages on the PBC, but additionally gives me instant access to those extra FX in the HX Stomp. In order to keep them straight, I have matching presets programmed on both devices, and the MC6 internally converts any PC messages sent to the HX Stomp to its own MIDI Channel, thus keeping them synced at all times (ex: PC0 on both is wah, and PC1 is whammy. If I change the HX Stomp to preset 1, the MC6 also switches to preset 1, which has button labels for Whammy).

My issue is that when I set JP 9/10 in the Multibox to MIDI In (which makes most sense to me based on the diagram above), signals get through to the PBC just fine, allowing me to change pages/bank, but trying to switch presets on the HX Stomp/Morningstar results in the change, followed by the PBC rotating through a couple presets, always ending on the first preset of the same song. I can't seem to figure out how to get the multibox set to let me both send signals to the PBC, and simultaneously send PC signals to the HX/Morningstar. If I set JP 9/10 to MIDI Thru though, the HX/Morningstar preset change works fine, but (obviously) nothing goes through to the PBC, meaning I can't access different pages or bank through songs.

I suspect this is either an issue with how I'm routing signals through the Multibox, or it's a MIDI loop issue that is somehow resolving itself after a few loops, but I can't be sure. Any help is appreciated!

Some extra notes:
- In testing this I've rewired the board so that it was PBC > Multibox > HX Stomp > Multibox > PBC with identical results, so I know it's one of these three pedals causing the issue.
- I've gone through my PBC programming extensively and I can't find any redundancies that would cause this, though I'm attaching it for reference in case I missed something.
- I've deleted the song banking programming in the HX Stomp with no change, so I know that wasn't the issue.
- Currently the other Multibox internal jumpers are as follows:
JP 11 is not grounded
JP 12/13 set to disable bidirectional MIDI
JP 14/15 set to active connection

Again, I appreciate any help with this. Thanks all!

 

[Mario]

Happy Holidays PianoMan!

JP9/10 definitely need to be set so Port #4 is a MIDI IN and be bi-directional with Port #1, otherwise the PBC won't receive any MIDI.

Have you tried checking/enabling the "Ignore Incoming PC" checkbox for the HX Stomp in the PBC Devices Tab for it (Device 4, HX Stomp)?

 

[PianoMan]

Same to you!

I figured as much re: JP9/10, so that's where I have it set currently.

I've actually had the Ignore Incoming PC box checked for most of my debugging process - it was off because I was playing around with different device settings to see if it helped. I just re-enabled it, and it didn't make a difference.

 

[Mario]

Since "...The MC6 mainly gives me instant access to pages on the PBC..." which is done via MIDI CCs, have you confirmed that the MC6 is not sending MIDI PCs on MIDI Channel 16 to the PBC?

 

[PianoMan]

Since "...The MC6 mainly gives me instant access to pages on the PBC..." which is done via MIDI CCs, have you confirmed that the MC6 is not sending MIDI PCs on MIDI Channel 16 to the PBC?

Yep! The only PC the MC6 sends to the PBC is via an AUX switch that enables preset 0, which is essentially my global preset (since you can't enable the global preset via MIDI to my knowledge). I've also removed the MC6 completely from the MIDI signal chain with no change to the issue, so I don't think it's playing a part in it.

 

[Mario]

If you were to connect a MIDI monitor app in the MIDI signal path it could provide important details on the MIDI messages that are causing you grief and where they might be coming from.

 

[PianoMan]

Haha, was already working on that.

This is what MIDI signals are coming to the PBC on a preset change where the HX Stomp doesn't change presets:



And here is what happens when I do change presets on the HX Stomp:




In doing this it appears that the HX Stomp is triggering the AUX switch commands when changing presets, causing the issue. Trying to figure out if there is a way to prevent that right now.

 

[Mario]

Regarding the MIDI Monitor, nice!!

Have you tried selecting "Ignore Incoming PCs" in the Device Tab for the MC6 in the PBC6X?

 

[PianoMan]

It's already set to ignore incoming PCs and CCs

 

[PianoMan]

Success! I hooked the HX Stomp directly to the PBC and monitored the MIDI. Was able to 100% confirm that the HX Stomp was sending out the preset change CCs when it changed presets. I changed the HX Stomp AUX Switch from CC Toggle mode to MIDI CC and it worked*!

* Think I actually found an HX Stomp bug here. Despite copy/pasting the commands between presets, the MIDI CC Aux switch buttons sometimes acted as momentary buttons, and sometimes as latching. When they acted as momentary, I would get two preset changes per button press. I fixed this by using a preset where it acted as latching as a template and rebuilding everything around that. I'm done now, and everything is working absolutely perfectly! Thanks for helping me process through this @Mario!

 

[Mario]

Awesome! And thanks for being so able and open to doing the heavy lifting, haha.

All the best in the New Year!