USING THE GT WITH AN AXE-FX I or II

rjmmusic

rjmmusic

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A very large percentage of the people who own a Mastermind GT also own an Axe-Fx. The two work very well together in a tightly integrated manner - the GT is able to control presets, effects and various parameters, and to receive effect on/off status, preset changes and preset names from the Axe-Fx.

Connections
The Axe-Fx needs a bidirectional connection to the GT. This means that it needs to be the first device in the MIDI chain, connected with either with a single 5 or 7 pin MIDI cable, with all of the pins wired through ("3 wire" MIDI cables exist and will work fine in most MIDI applications, but not this one!).

Alternately, you can use two MIDI cables, one from the GT's MIDI output to the Axe's MIDI input and one from the GT's Remote In to the Axe's MIDI output. With a two cable setup, you can use 3-wire MIDI cables, and in some cases, can get around the requirement that the Axe-Fx be the first device in the MIDI chain. (More on this below.) If you use 2 MIDI cables, be sure to turn off the MIDI Thru parameter on the Axe-Fx.

Don't use two 5-pin or 7-pin cables if you're connecting the GT directly to the Axe-Fx! That will cause the communication between the devices to get messed up. A single cable is fine in this case (again, unless your cable only has 3 wires connected).

Phantom Power
The Axe-Fx II is not able to provide enough current to phantom power the GT. Trying to phantom power the GT will result in a damaged Axe-Fx! You can either power the GT directly with its own adapter, or you can get around the phantom power limitations in two ways:

Option 1: We sell a phantom power adapter box. You plug the Axe-Fx's MIDI input into the phantom power box's 5-pin MIDI jack using a 5-pin MIDI cable, plug the Mastermind's power adapter into the box, then run a 7-pin MIDI or 6-pin XLR cable from the box to the GT.

Option 2: If you are using one of our products like an Effect Gizmo, Rack Gizmo or Amp Gizmo, plug the MIDI Out of the GT into the MIDI In of the Gizmo using a 7-pin MIDI cable (or 6-pin XLR if available). Plug the MIDI Out/Thru of the Gizmo into the MIDI Input of the Axe-Fx. Plug the MIDI Out of the Axe-Fx into the Remote In of the GT using a 5-pin MIDI cable. Make sure that the MIDI Thru parameter of the Axe-Fx is turned off.

Initial setup
To set up the GT to work with the Axe-Fx, you first go into the Edit Devices screen, and add the appropriate Axe-Fx model to the system. Make sure that the Axe-Fx is set to a different MIDI channel than any other MIDI device in your system. This MIDI channel number must be set on the GT and on the Axe-Fx itself.

You can use the Set Default Buttons, Set Default Pages and Get Preset Names options on the GT to set up the instant access buttons, expression pedals and preset names. These are described in detail in the Mastermind GT manual.

On the Axe-Fx, you need to make sure that the MIDI channel matches the one assigned to it in the GT settings. Also, the Send Realtime Sysex parameter needs to be turned on. This parameter can be found in the I/O menu, MIDI page, near the bottom of the list.
 
Re: connections, on my first attempt to download the preset names I got no communication, maybe my single cable was a 3-wire.

My second attempt was with two new 5-pin cables. THRU was turned off on the Axe. The process went fairly quickly, but when finished the preset names on the GT were messed-up. Each bank had just three names on the IA buttons, the correct one followed by a repeat of it, as in 59 Bassguy, 59 Bassguy, Brownface, Brownface, Double Verb, Double Verb. Selecting the incorrectly-named IA buttons changed the Axe correctly to 65 Bassguy, Deluxe Verb, and A-Class 15, respectively.

I did a factory reset, and repeated the Axe II setup. The problem repeated.

Upon reading your note above I unplugged the Remote In cable on the GT and ran the setup again with just one cable. It was slower, but it worked correctly.

I have an Axe II with 9.xx firmware.
 
Yes, running two 5-pin MIDI cables will confuse the GT and Axe-Fx. I'll make a note of that above.
 
I'm having the same problem as described in this thread..

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii ... hange.html

Anything I can do with the GT to get around this? Whenever the GT sends a PC message to the Axe, that change occurs on the Axe but then the Axe sends a message to the GT and the GT ends up on the preset number that corresponds with the Axe's preset number.

So, preset 6 on the GT is my bass preset. It sends a PC to the Axe to switch to the Axe Preset 1 (my bass amp sim). That change occurs but then my GT ends up on Preset 1 as well.

Turning off bi-directional communication is a work around but of course then you lose massive amounts of functionality as far as IA buttons updating based on what blocks are preset on the Axe preset etc.
 
Rather than disabling bi-directional communication completely, is there a setting on the MMGT to just ignore incoming PC messages? Certainly something I'd expect to see - it's very common on synthesizers and other MIDI gear. That way it'll still receive the CC messages, but ignore the program change that the Axe-FX is sending back out.
 
The GT has no channel set for incoming PC so that's not it. It appears to be coming as part of the sysex data the GT is sending. And regardless of what the "send realtime sysex data" parameter in the Axe is set to (e.g. off/tuner/tempo/all) it still happens unfortunately.

I guess I'll just disable bi-directional for now.

This is a rig with a bunch of other MIDI gear in it so perhaps not the optimal situation for taking full advantage of all the communication between the Axe and GT.
 
The Axe's communication with the GT uses custom Sysex messages, so the "PC receive channel" setting has no effect on it. There's no way to disable the preset change functionality at the moment, but I will put it at the top of the list for firmware 1.2, or a pre-1.2 release if I do another one of those.
 
It's your lucky day! Version 1.1.2 is now posted on this forum and it contains the above change. I had to fix a bug in the setlist edit page, so I also added a setting "Ignore PC In" to the Edit Devices / More Settings page. Turn this on and the GT will ignore program changes coming from the Axe-Fx.
 
Looks like setting the Ignore PC In also disables the GTs ability to dim out IAs assigned to Axe blocks that aren't present in the currently called up Axe preset.
 
Gaahhh! I swear I tested that case, but it looks like you're right. I'll fix it shortly.
 
It looks like it did. Thank you.

I'm having all kinds of trouble when trying to use bi-directional com overall though. I don't think it's an issue with the GT but it feels like when bi-directional is on the Axe and the GT act like two really smart people talking when they don't know each other's language. When I turn it off and let the GT drive everything is fine for the most part despite the loss of bells and whistles. This was happening on 1.1.2 as well.

But when I have bi-direction on and I'm switching through presets, they'll come up in weird states (IAs active that aren't on in either the GT preset or the Axe preset) and in an unpredictable manner (ie. preset GT's comes up differently depending on if you switched to it from A or C).

So I think I'll just leave it off. Tried resetting my GT with the new firmware and reloading my settings but no change so I'll just leave it off. I don't want to start from scratch again, at least until the editor is ready.

I'm happy with how everything runs when bi-directional is off apart for one slight problem that I'm trying to fix.
 
Check to make sure that there isn't another device set to the same MIDI channel as the Axe-Fx. (Specifically, make sure that this is so in the GT's settings for each device). I seem to remember seeing this symptom caused by other settings - but can't remember the details at the moment (maybe I shouldn't answer support requests on Sunday night!) I will let you know if I come up with other things to try.

If you'd like to send me your settings, I can have a look. I beat on the Axe-Fx support for a long time and the bidirectional support is working pretty well for me, so I'd like to see what's causing the issue in your setup.
 
It's definitely on it's own channel. Verified that. Ignore PC in is ON. Either setting of the Ignore CC in causes different weird behaviour. I discovered that with Ignore CC in ON the disabling of IAs for non-existent blocks also doesn't work. But that's supposed to happen I believe.

Even with bi-com off, the GT won't send the CC's to toggle effects in the Axe until I select a GT preset that actually changes the program on the Axe. But that's a minor issue.

I'll send the file tonight but it's certainly not any sort of emergency for me so don't go to too much trouble. Thanks.
 
Ok, config file is attached in the zip file.

Unzipped version here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8106433/MMGT/26Mar2013.rjs

I'm not sure how it will behave without my Axe-FX attached but the only thing that may have any bearing is the realtime sysex send parameter. Mine is set to "none". In my patches, all the effects blocks are off. I want to let the GT turn them on and off as defined in the GT presets. In the GT the Ignore PC in is set to ON for the Axe-FX.

Other devices in the rig, Line6 M5, G-Lab MIDI 4, Eventide Timefactor, Eventide Space, Voodoo Lab GCX are all verified to be on separate channels.

I'm only using three presets in the Axe right now; 000 is my electric, 001 is my bass, 002 is my acoustic. That's as far as I've gotten because a)I've been recording and b) I'm sort of waiting for FW10 to deep dive into the Axe.

On the GT, the first bank of four presets all call Axe patch 000. On the second bank, the Bass preset calls 001 and the acoustic preset calls 002. The first page of the GT is all my external effects. The second page is full of IAs for Axe-FX blocks that are in my 000 patch plus some bells and whistles for my eventides. For all presets on the first bank of the GT, Reverb 1 on the second page is programmed to be on. For "Hallelujah" on the second bank, both Reverb 1 and Reverb 2 are on. For "Spring" Reverb 1 is on and the X/Y is selected to use Y. There are delay blocks in my 000 patch but no GT presets use them.

Here is what is happening right now.

If bi-directional communication is OFF in the GT;
- On power up, the GT goes to preset 1 (Clean) but Reverb 1 will initiate as off. It will stay this way no matter what preset is selected until you select either Bass or Acoustic (i.e. select a preset that changes the Axe program). After that, all GT presets come up as programmed and everything runs tickedy-boo.

If bi-directional communication is ON in the GT and the Ignore CC in parameter is set to OFF;
- On power up, everything behaves as above. Call up Bass or Acoustic and it switches as it should and inactive Axe-FX blocks are dimmed on the GT. But now, call up the "Hallelujah" preset on the GT and you'll see that the X/Y IAs are still dimmed and Delay 1, Delay 2, Reverb 1 and Reverb 2 all come up as on even though only Reverb 1 and 2 should. After that, everything remains gibbled as far as IA states and IAs being dimmed despite being present in the Axe patch.

If bi-directional communication is ON in the GT and the Ignore CC in parameter is set to ON;
- Same as above except the dimming doesn't happen. But the IAs still come on contrary to what is actually programmed in the GT.


I'm guessing that most of my issues with bi-directional communication are user error and me not understanding what should really happen when it's on. ie I shouldn't be trying to use it when I'm not using the Axe and the GT in a one to one relationship (i.e. Preset 000 on the GT calls up preset 000 on the Axe, 001 calls up 001 etc.) and letting the Axe determine what effects blocks are on for each preset.

But the problem that is occurring without bi-directional communication on, while minor, might be some sort of bug.
 

Attachments

  • 26Mar2013.zip
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Ok, thanks for the detailed explanation. I will play with this and see what happens. The realtime sysex send parameter on the Axe jumps out at me right away. With that turned off, It shouldn't try to update the GT at all...
 
Ah! Okay, makes sense. I hadn't looked at the manual or tried it myself, so was just guessing.

Soon, I will whip out the MIDI Monitor and see what's really going on behind the scenes!
 
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