General PBC Questions

shoelesscraig

shoelesscraig

Well-Known Member
Hey dudes (and gals)...just purchased my PBC. Haven't even gotten it yet, but just thinking / planning I have come up with some questions.

First, I will have the PBC controlling a TimeLine, BigSky, Mobius and a Source Audio EQ via MIDI. My thought is to buy the Mission SP1-RJM expression pedal. With this setup, is it possible to program such that at any time, on any preset I can trigger the switch on the expression pedal and send the Mobius to the "Filter" setting to recreate a Wah sound? I currently use a wah, but I thinking that if the above is possible I will ditch the way and just use the Mobius.

Next, a question about stereo. If I wire the 3 Strymon pedals as stereo, but only use 1 amp (and of course have output B off, switch on the back for mono), does the PBC sum the left and right together before outputting on output A? Reason I ask is...unless I'm wrong, I think that the Strymon stuff will recognize that it is wired stereo and output accordingly, so if I don't sum them back together somehow, I'll be missing part of the effect...?? (I could be wrong). I will be using 1 amp 99.9% of the time, but would like the ability to connect stereo if I wanted.

I'm sure I'll think of more questions, but that'll do for now... :) Thanks ahead of time for any help!
 
Regarding the Wah, yes you can program the button to call up a Wah preset and enable the pedal.

Bill (boyce) is correct - you would need the mono mixdown mod done to your PBC, or you would need an external summing box. Goodwood Audio makes the Interfacer, which will do the job for you. Either is switchable between mono and stereo.
 
rjmmusic said:
Regarding the Wah, yes you can program the button to call up a Wah preset and enable the pedal.

Bill (boyce) is correct - you would need the mono mixdown mod done to your PBC, or you would need an external summing box. Goodwood Audio makes the Interfacer, which will do the job for you. Either is switchable between mono and stereo.
Click to expand...

Excellent on the mono/stereo thing. Sounds like it may be easiest on my wallet just to keep the cables handy and plug them in any time I need to run stereo (which like I said is basically never).

Reagrding the wah, so just to make sure I understand before ordering the SP1-RJM...so I can call up that wah sound from the Mobius at any time on any preset by rocking the pedal forward and engaging the switch. And then engage the switch again to kill the wah sound? On any preset on the PBC? Don't want to beat this to death, just learning here! Thanks for the feedback Ron...
 
Yes, set the external switch to type IA, turn off all checkboxes, then add the following actions to the button:

Mobius PC off:None on:<your wah preset number>
Audio Loop <whichever loop has the Mobius> off:OFF on:ON

That'll do it, pressing the button will call up the Wah preset and turning on the loop, pressing it again will deactivate the loop.
 
Just had a quick thought about mono/stereo as this is something I need too.

Wouldn't it be easier to just carry a "reverse insert cable" (I just made that name up as I can't think of anything better)? Amp Out A and Amp Out B would be summed to a single female TS socket and you would just plug a normal guitar cable between there and the amp. Both Amp A and Amp B outs would be left on in all presets so you wouldn't need to reprogram settings in any way.

It would take up almost zero space on my board, could be left in my guitar case or pedal board case at all times to use as required and would be be cheap as chips to make.
 
Just tying together outputs like that isn't really a good idea - that can put stress on the output circuits of the pedals and/or the internal line mixer. When the left side and right side are generating different voltages, tying them together with a Y-cable causes a fight between the two sides - one's trying to get the combined output to one voltage, the other is trying to get it to a different voltage.

It might work - there is some resistance in the circuit that helps prevent overloading - but it's not something I have tested. The "official" solution adds a few more resistors to your idea, to isolate the two sides enough to allow them to each have different voltage levels. This is something that probably could be built into a cable, but it would be a little tight inside the connector shells.
 
Thanks Ron. Life is never as simple as I expect it to be.

That's why you design these awesome units and not muppets like me :D
 
Ron, maybe I'm wrong....but I'm an electrical engineer, so I can't leave this along. :)

Couldn't I just run an insert cable from the PBC out to the stereo pedal, (in my case a Timeline) and ONLY plug in 1 of the plugs at the Timeline? In this case, the Timeline would only see 1 cable plugged into it, so it would output mono to that one plug. If the PBC was set for Mono using the buttons on the back, wouldn't this allow me to be mono and then if I wanted to go stereo just plug in the extra cable and set the PBC for stereo? Granted, I would have to make sure I have the correct plug plugged in at the Timeline...I wouldn't get any delay at all if I had the wrong one plugged in.

**Thinking out loud** If I did the above, the PBC would have a stereo TRS plugged into it, but it shouldn't matter, right? As long as the correct plug was used to plug into the Timeline's mono output, the PBC would see the same thing as if I connect a mono cable to it from the Timeline....right?

I'm just looking for a way to be mono most of the time but have the ability to go stereo if needed. If the above worked, I could wire the board this way, keep the 2nd plug on the insert cable unplugged and have the ability to quickly set up a stereo rig if needed.

Is there anything wrong with the above train of thought? (Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...LOL!)
 
As long as the Timeline does convert its output to mono when you unplug one of the output jacks, then it probably will work. You will need to put the Mono->Stereo button in the "in" position when running mono output.
 
shoelesscraig said:
Ron, maybe I'm wrong....but I'm an electrical engineer, so I can't leave this along. :)

Couldn't I just run an insert cable from the PBC out to the stereo pedal, (in my case a Timeline) and ONLY plug in 1 of the plugs at the Timeline? In this case, the Timeline would only see 1 cable plugged into it, so it would output mono to that one plug. If the PBC was set for Mono using the buttons on the back, wouldn't this allow me to be mono and then if I wanted to go stereo just plug in the extra cable and set the PBC for stereo? Granted, I would have to make sure I have the correct plug plugged in at the Timeline...I wouldn't get any delay at all if I had the wrong one plugged in.

**Thinking out loud** If I did the above, the PBC would have a stereo TRS plugged into it, but it shouldn't matter, right? As long as the correct plug was used to plug into the Timeline's mono output, the PBC would see the same thing as if I connect a mono cable to it from the Timeline....right?

I'm just looking for a way to be mono most of the time but have the ability to go stereo if needed. If the above worked, I could wire the board this way, keep the 2nd plug on the insert cable unplugged and have the ability to quickly set up a stereo rig if needed.

Is there anything wrong with the above train of thought? (Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...LOL!)
Click to expand...

Nevermind, Ron beat me to it.
 
That would be great for me too as I really want to run mono most of the time but with the ability to switch to stereo on occasions.

Unfortunately, Stereo In/Mono out isn't an option on the Timeline

http://www.strymon.net/faq/mono-and-stereo-connections/

But presumably we would just unplug the right input and right output on Timeline to get mono in mono out.

Would there be any issue with having the right channel return cable disconnected from the timeline (and in my case mobius and TC HoF)? Does this not leave the Ring of the TRS return active on the PBC witha live TS haning loose at the other end? Would this not be the same as leaving a guitar lead plugged into an amp with no guitar attached? i.e. generate noise


If not, then I'm a happy bunny and my stereo/mono issue has just been solved without the need for an interfact box.

Alternatively, I know there is a mono/stereo mod for the PBC but what is the downside of doing it?
 
As long as you keep the Mono Output button pressed in, the ring (right) side of the signal never makes it to the output. It would only matter if there's another stereo pedal following the first stereo pedal. But, if you disconnect the right side of each pedal, then you should be ok.

Disadvantages of the mono mixdown mod:
- You can no longer use the A and B outputs as a mono A/B/Y switch to send the signal to two amps
- Some effects (stereo chorus and some other stereo modulation effects) don't sound good when mixed down
 
rjmmusic said:
As long as the Timeline does convert its output to mono when you unplug one of the output jacks, then it probably will work. You will need to put the Mono->Stereo button in the "in" position when running mono output.
Click to expand...


Ron, for the scenario I stated above...I just wanted to clarify / ask a question. I am thinking that I will be running my 3 stereo pedals in parallel. So, I will have all mono pedals in loops 1-7, and then I'd like to run 8-10 in the fashion I mentioned above. These 3 pedals will be the Strymon Mobius, Timeline and BigSky (in that order). All of these DO become MONO when nothing is plugged into the 2 stereo jacks.

So, am I correct with the below thinking?

Leave the SEND on loop 8 with a normal TS cable (since the signal is still MONO at this point). Return back with an insert cable (TRS) on loop 8 return...of course on loops 9 and 10 I use insert cables for the send and returns since everything is stereo at this point. THEN....I can still do what I said above, correct? Leave the "stereo" cables for each pedal unplugged and with the buttons on the back of the PBC in the right position, I can run MONO. Then if I plug in the "stereo" side of the cables and change the buttons on the PBC, I'm stereo. Sound right so far?

Next question...the above still works in parallel or series mode, right? I have some other questions to make sure I understand parallel vs. series, but I'll put those in a more appropriate thread.
 
There are a couple of problems with that arrangement.

Running stereo, loop 7 on: With a mono cable coming out of your pedal, the overall output signal will be mono. You need a cable that converts the pedal's output to stereo before it goes back into return 7.

Running stereo, loop 8 on: In this one, you will have either a major volume drop or complete loss of signal. This is because the signal coming into loop 8 is a mono signal converted to stereo. That is, the same signal on the left and right side. Once it hits the mono cable leading to the Mobius input, the right side will be shorted to ground, which actually shorts both sides to ground (because they're the same signal). You need to use an insert cable or a ring disconnect cable to keep the right side from getting shorted out.

If I haven't sent this to you yet, these guidelines explain in more detail:
Using Stereo Pedals with the Mastermind PBC

An additional note is that an insert cable with the right side plug disconnected is the same as a ring disconnect cable as mentioned in the above article.
 
rjmmusic said:
There are a couple of problems with that arrangement.

Running stereo, loop 7 on: With a mono cable coming out of your pedal, the overall output signal will be mono. You need a cable that converts the pedal's output to stereo before it goes back into return 7.

Running stereo, loop 8 on: In this one, you will have either a major volume drop or complete loss of signal. This is because the signal coming into loop 8 is a mono signal converted to stereo. That is, the same signal on the left and right side. Once it hits the mono cable leading to the Mobius input, the right side will be shorted to ground, which actually shorts both sides to ground (because they're the same signal). You need to use an insert cable or a ring disconnect cable to keep the right side from getting shorted out.

If I haven't sent this to you yet, these guidelines explain in more detail:
Using Stereo Pedals with the Mastermind PBC

An additional note is that an insert cable with the right side plug disconnected is the same as a ring disconnect cable as mentioned in the above article.
Click to expand...

I think I understand Ron. So I actually wasn't going to have anything g in loop 6. So, if I take what was going to be in loop 7 (which is mono anyways) and move it to 6, then I could hook up all sends and returns on 8-10 with regular insert cables and I'd be good. I could still unplug one side of the insert cables to run mono as mentioned before, and plug them in when needing stereo. (Of course, changing the buttons on the PBC appropriately).
 
shoelesscraig said:
I think I understand Ron. So I actually wasn't going to have anything g in loop 6. So, if I take what was going to be in loop 7 (which is mono anyways) and move it to 6, then I could hook up all sends and returns on 8-10 with regular insert cables and I'd be good. I could still unplug one side of the insert cables to run mono as mentioned before, and plug them in when needing stereo. (Of course, changing the buttons on the PBC appropriately).
Click to expand...

Yes regular insert cables for all Strymon pedals will do the job.
 
rjmmusic said:
Yes, set the external switch to type IA, turn off all checkboxes, then add the following actions to the button:

Mobius PC off:None on:<your wah preset number>
Audio Loop <whichever loop has the Mobius> off:OFF on:ON

That'll do it, pressing the button will call up the Wah preset and turning on the loop, pressing it again will deactivate the loop.
Click to expand...

Ron, this suggestion for the Wah works great, but in order to do it, I figured out that I needed to set up the exp pedal as a "Continous Controller" for the Mobius parameter. Is there a way to only make the exp pedal be a continuous controller once the switch on the exp pedal is activated?

Reason I ask....I would love for the exp pedal to "continuously" control the decay or level on my BigSky, and then when I activate the switch, it triggers the Mobius on and becomes a controller for that parameter and NOT the reverb any longer. I know how to do this by creating a preset for my Wah inside the PBC and doing a Exp Pedal Override...but then I would have to program my sound for the wah ahead of time (determine which overdrives are on, etc). Your previous way means I get to add wah to whatever sound I'm currently using (be it clean, dirty, whatever).

Is there a way to change the PBC to a preset for the Wah (thereby allowing an Exp Pedal Override) and keep whichever loops where on in the previous preset? So if I were playing clean it would stay clean, or if I was overdriven it would stay overdriven?

Do any of that make sense? Lol! Seems like a lot of typing for a simple question....sorry!
 
Currently, no, you can't do that, but the ability for a button to reconfigure an expression pedal is a frequently requested feature.
 
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