Midi over Ethernet

S

sweetjonny

Well-Known Member
Hi.

So I'm looking at running a very large midi cable out to a GT16. So looking into using Midi over Ethernet. Trouble is I know next to nothing about this technology and how its implemented.

Does anyone have any experience and advice on this? Is there an off the shelf solution already available?
 
Unfortunately, I've never tried either one. Hopefully someone else here has some experience with one or the other.
 
Hi,

I've been looking at a couple of solutions recently as well pending what variety of flexibility you require. As a touring video tech, I always tend to go for Cat 5 over 3pin XLR more often than not as I can usually pick something up in an emergency easily (have plenty of spares the backbone of video these days is cat-5 everything...) or re-terminate a lot quicker than pulling out the soldering iron. But again it is all up to preference.

If you wanted MIDI over Network/IP solution I've used the BOME Boxes in the past for Midi Controller extensions to Media servers. Rather flexible routing and can be wireless or powered with PoE if you have a PoE switch in your system. The PoE will only power the BOME box though and not pass through power its Midi Ports to power the GT.

This of course allows you to add in other network midi devices easily too if you wanted your DAW to send/receive midi as well. I have been using these to get remote Midi into my Media Servers from either FOH or engineering from either small control surfaces or GrandMA lighting consoles for example.

https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox

For a basic point to point solution over cat 5 I believe this MidiMizer-Cat5+DC will work from eureka sounds, of course you will need to have a midi merger/matrix in your rack as each midi connecter is only wired 3 pin, but still a cost effective solution if you plan to just run a single cat 5.

http://www.eurekasound.com/midimizer

Hopefully this helps you with some further ideas in your quest
 
yes thanks for the info! food for thought.

So Ron, are all 5 pins actualy required for standard midi here? with any of the RJM stuff anyway? would simply adpteing to 3pin be ok?
 
I would be guessing not, but will wait for Ron's final verdict. My current set up is input and output cables running through a Motu merger controlling the Axe and Reaper (USB from the Motu). I do have Bi-directional turned off due to this but haven't lost Tuner or tempo functions for example.
 
Standard MIDI is 3 pin, but if you want to use the ports in bidirectional mode, you need 5 pins. You'll have to split them to individual 3 pn connectors - I'm pretty sure that none of those solutions would support bidirectional, since it's not part of the MIDI standard.
 
ahh yes of course the bidirectional needs 5 pins. ok. I'll need to dig deeper into the ethernet option. thanks ron
 
silly question... I'm assuming that in bidirectional midi mode, all other "standard" midi devices in the chain will still function as normal?
 
Also, will ground loops be a concern with all 5 pins on midi cable connected fully at each end? ive heard about ground loops in midi causing noise in the audio chain before...
 
Yes, standard MIDI devices will still work fine. Please note that they also won't pass bidirectional MIDI, though. Devices that are bidirectional have to be connected directly to each other, no standard MIDI devices in between. (At least, not without some trickery).
 
very glad you mentioned this Ron as this is crucial to my proposed setup. (GT16 and PBC bidirectional mode)

So after Speaking with Mike Hill (rig building master) here in the UK over the phone this morning, He says that he uses the "Kenton LNDR"
to facilitate Midi over ethernet with good success.
However, this unit will not support Bidirectional midi from one midi cable as standard.

However, The Kenton LDNR does infact support 2 way midi as it has seperate Midi IN and OUT ports... So would there be a way to make a Split cable that could split the bidirectional signal to seperate IN and OUT, and have this split cable at both units (GT16 and PBC)?

The Manufacturer of the Kenton LDNR thinks this would just be a case of knowing the exact pin configuration to do it.


Also, with regard to the order of midi devices in a bidirectional set up, unfortunatly I will be running another MIDI controller (the french made "EvenMidi", check it out) on the same pedalboard as the GT16, which will be some distance from the PBC and the other midi devices... this would mean that it may be unavoidable that the EvenMIdi will be in the same path as the bidirectional signal! You mentioned there may be "some trickery" that could make this work?
Or could I just run yet another MIDI cable for that pedal back to the PBC/Other devices?


copious amounts of head scratching indeed.
 
Last edited:
Yes, if the Kenton is bidirectional, then splitting the 7-pin MIDI to two 5 pins at both ends should work. It should be wired like this:

From the GT MIDI Out:
pin 1 - 5-pin MIDI IN pin 4
pin 2 - 5-pin MIDI OUT pin 2
pin 3 - 5-pin MIDI IN pin 5
pin 4 - 5-pin MIDI OUT pin 4
pin 5 - 5-pin MIDI OUT pin 5
pin 6, pin 7, not connected

As for EvenMidi, it looks like you would need to split the GT MIDI output using a cable like above. The output side of the cable goes to the EvenMidi in, the input side goes to the Kenton box. The EvenMidi output goes to the Kenton box. I think this should work.
 
Amazing. I was forgetting the GT16 has 7 pin midi.

So for the PBC side, how should the this be connected with the PBC and other devices? Do I need another custom splitter?

i'm sure Mike Hill can make this cable up for me.
 
Yes, you'll need a similar splitter on the other side to get individual in and out connectors.
 
So would that splitter be the same pin configuration but just with a 5pin for the pbc? As the above doesn't use pins 6 and 7 anyway?

Actually, would I really need the 7pin end at gt16 end?

And am I always leaving the sleeves/shell of the midi cables unconnected?
 
sweetjonny said:
So would that splitter be the same pin configuration but just with a 5pin for the pbc? As the above doesn't use pins 6 and 7 anyway?

Actually, would I really need the 7pin end at gt16 end?

And am I always leaving the sleeves/shell of the midi cables unconnected?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can just use 5 pin connectors (and must use them for the PBC. No phantom power is used anywhere, so you don't need 6&7.

The MIDI spec states that connector shells are always left unconnected. The shield wire in the cable should always be connected to pin 2 on both ends of the cable. Inside MIDI devices, pin 2 is connected to ground on MIDI outputs, pin 2 is not connected on MIDI inputs. This prevents ground loops.
 
ah, great.

so, with the Kentons master and slave units, MIDI signal applied to the MIDI IN of the master will appear at the MIDI out of the slave. Similarly a MIDI signal applied to the MIDI IN of the slave will appear at the MIDI out of the master.

So, at the PBC, given what you said already, the Input of the Kenton goes to the Output of the other custom splitter, the output of the Kenton goes to the Input custom splitter, the 3rd (full 5 pin active) connector on the custom splitter goes to the input of the PBC and the output of PBC goes to the other devices (delays etc).

that sound about right?


Also, as a side note on the midi standard wiring, is there even any point to the ground inside MIDI device outputs being there? if it never actually connects to anything? I'm probably digging too deep there. haha
 
Looking more at that Pin config. it seems to me that pins 1 and 3 will be left unconnected? and if same config on the second splitter, would that not mean pins 4 and 5 conflict?

very keen to make this work, so again appreaciate your thoughts
 
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