Amp PCs as IAs? (And what order does the PBC/MM send all messages)

Piplodocus

Piplodocus

Well-Known Member
My amp (Diezel Hagen) is MIDI controlled and has 4 channels + solo volume boost. I wanted to avoid using loads of patches cuz I use this amp with other things and don't want to overwrite for those saved programs. So I've saved programs 101-104 in the amp as these 4 modes and 105-108 as the same + solo boost. So if I have 50 presets in my rig, I can just use reuse those same 8. Traditionally with my old MM LT I then I use the PBC PC messages section to choose which of those I want in each patch. Simple.

I've now considered for the sake of programming patches easily, it might make more sense to turn all the patches PBC PC sends to the amp off in all presets, and program 8 buttons on an "Amp page" for each of those 8 variations (and stuff them all in an exclusive "Amp channel" group with "all off" disallowed). I've actually done it with 4 buttons for the 4 amp channels with the solo of each on the 4 hold functions.

The upside is I can then program a preset's amp channel and if solo boost is on just by setting the channel in the PBC's "amp page" and saving my IAs for that preset. I can easily set it with button state in the preset tab of the editor, or on the pedal itself and quickly save the change (and I can easily see what it's on from the amp page on the PBC). Seems a no-brainer compared to having to use the PC change selector for the amp in the PBC menu or on the editor.

But any downsides of making my amp PC changes with IA buttons that send state on preset change? I can't think of any, but are there any pitfalls I've not thought of because it sends some stuff before those if they're IAs or something?

I guess you don't want to do this with something like Timeline presets, because it might set some IA buttons before others (like send CCs, then send new PCs with IA PCs after), but can't think of one from the amp. I guess that begs the question what order does it send IA buttons in (e.g. Song presets (if a new song) -> Set any local page -> All preset PCs (in order of device?) -> Expr override assignments -> IA buttons (in order of page or order of device or something else))? So would IA buttons be last so any IA button saved states will override patch changes/expression assignments/pages if they also control them? And buttons states saved in higher pages could overrule button states set in lower pages (although largely you'd use IA link to avoid that)? Or does it work out all things it needs to do first, then sends them all out in device and CC number order?

So yeah, in short, any pitfalls you can think of, and are there general rules what order everything is sent in on preset changes?

(Was thinking of doing this with my Empress Tremolo 2 and Meris Enzo as well since they don't have many presets, and have Trem patch and Enzo patch pages too with PC IA buttons in their own exclusive groups. So on preset change I'd have amp, trem and synth PCs sent with IA button saved states, and CB Brothers, Timeline and BigSky set with the preset PCs)
 
Using programmed IA buttons as you describe is the method I recommend for most people. The order in which messages are sent is chosen to make this kind of configuration work.

First, any PCs specified in the preset are sent
Next, preset actions are run
Finally, each IA button is run, starting at button 1 on the first page, and continuing through all buttons on page 1. Then, it continues on the page 2 and the remaining pages, in numerical order

If you want to have IA buttons that send PCs to the pedal(s), and also IA buttons that send CCs to those same pedals, just make sure that the pages that have CCs are on higher numbered pages.
 
I should also mention that "Direct Send PCs/CCs" should be turned on in the Devices tab if the order of messages is important. If it's not turned on, it will try to optimize the messages that are sent, and that often results in the order of messages being sent.
 
Thanks. Just been reading about the direct send. If I turn that on it says it may send more messages, but in the expected order (I presume in the order you've decribed above, which may not be true if direct send is off?). I doubt that should be much of an issue as long as I know what order they're in. But for info, does that mean if I have 2 IA buttons that do the same thing on different pages it'll send it twice in the order of pages (as noted above) if direct send is on, or not if direct is off? Or does it always skip the second if "IA link" is on?

(I'm seemingly after all the esoteric geek info on this, cuz that's where all the unexpected surprises come from when it does something you don't expect! :p)

While I'm here, another Q: manual says under devices...
Send PCs - When checked, the GT or PBC will send PC messages to the device. When not checked, no PC messages will be sent to the device.

Does that enable and disable just the presets PCs stored in the preset settings? Or does it enable/disable/filter out *ANY* PCs sent to that device (e.g. PCs in IA button functions)?
 
Direct Send will do everything in the order I mentioned, no shortcuts. If a button has just changed state, it will definitely send its messages - all messages, in the specified order.

With Direct Send turned off, it'll group up messages and eliminate what it considers are redundancies. For example, if one button sends CC#20 value 1 and another button sends CC#20 value 2, only the last one will be sent. If the device is using MIDI CCs in a "normal" way, this makes sense, because you'll never hear the results of the first CC, the second one comes too quickly. So only the second one is sent.

Since you want the gory details, when Direct Send is off, it will still examine all of the messages in the order I posted above. But it won't send anything yet. Then, after it's looked at all of them, it will send PCs to devices 1-16 in order (no more than one PC per device), and it will send CCs to each device 1-16 in order. CCs are also sorted and sent in numerical order, and no CC number is sent more than once.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top