Axe-Fx Question - Two Way Communication Question

G

GreatGreen

Active Member
So hey everybody, first post here. Mastermind GT coming in a few days and I'm looking forward to seeing what this think can do. But I do have a question about functionality with the Axe-Fx.

Basically, I have an Axe-Fx II Mark II which means it only has two MIDI ports, MIDI In and MIDI Out/Thru. In addition, when you put the Axe-Fx Mark II in MIDI Thru mode, it's supposed to be a bit slower than a traditional MIDI Thru port.

I'd still like to get two way communication between the Axe and the GT, so my solution is to place the Axe-Fx last in the MIDI send chain to keep the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out port free, then connect the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out directly to the GT's Remote In.

So I say all that to ask this... In this wiring configuration, when I press a Scene button on the GT, will all the rest of the IA buttons shown on the GT update to reflect the changes the Scene change makes?


From further down in the thread:

I guess a simpler way to ask my original question is this:
Will the Axe-Fx be able to update the MMGT's IA on/off status buttons if bidirectional communication is OFF, but instead I have a MIDI cable connected from the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out straight to the MMGT's Remote In port?
 
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It should, when configured properly.
I got mine about a week ago and I'm still struggling with some features.
Do you have any other equipment in the MIDI-chain?
 
Mr.E said:
It should, when configured properly.
I got mine about a week ago and I'm still struggling with some features.
Do you have any other equipment in the MIDI-chain?
Click to expand...

I do, two preamps and an outboard EQ.

The MIDI Send chain is:
Mastermind GT MIDI Out-> EQ MIDI in
EQ MIDI Thru -> Preamp A MIDI In
Preamp A MIDI Thru -> Preamp B MIDI In
Preamp B MIDI Thru -> Axe-Fx MIDI In

Then:
Axe-Fx MIDI Out -> Mastermind GT Remote In.

Axe-Fx is set for MIDI channel 1 on the Axe-Fx and the GT. Axe-Fx SysEx Send set to All.
 
Connect Axe-Fx MIDI out -> Mastermind GT MIDI In for two-way communication
You'll soon see if bidirectional communication works when you use "Get Preset Names"
For the rest, it's a getting used to the editor and the logic behind it.

I use a one-preset-per-song approach.
So I use the local page for each GTpreset to define what blocks I want to see
In the Buttons page, I have programmed all the blocks that are in the Axe-Fx.
I've got this set up so that, when selecting a preset on the Axe-Fx, only the blocks used in that particular preset are visible.
It alshow shows the state of the blocks when changing scenes.

Send PCs - ON
Ignore Incoming PC - ON
Send Redundant PCs - OFF
Ignore Incoming CC - OFF
Send CCs on preset change - ON
Direct Send PCs/CCs - ON
Sync Names - OFF (but I think this could be ON)

In the action buttons:
Send on Preset Change - ON (strangely enough, this has to be on to only show the blocks used in that particular preset)
Update on Preset Change - ON
IA Link - ON
CC Link - ON
Same if you use Hold Mode
All the rest OFF

This seems to work for me but, even though the state of the buttons is updated immediately when changing scenes or presets, if you want to black out the blocks not used, you have to turn "Send on Preset Change" ON. Very strange logic.
 
you will want to place the mmgt outputs directly into the axe input, or you will not get to enjoy the bidirectional midi on single cable, of the two. You will lose your tuner and the ability to get names on the fly. Bi-directional midi is BOTH directions on ONE cable. Mr. E is using it in a standard config. Whereas it can work with NO cables going to the input on the mmgt. The output of the mmgt goes INTO the input of the axe. That ONE cable carries the bi-directinal signal. I have tried forever to get around having to use a midi interface as a gateway, but the axe doesnt pass midi clock thru very well. Because there is only one input and the axe has it in use from the mmgt, I am having to run midi INTO the in port of the mmgt and the bidirectional carries it back to the axe. I have the out-thru on the axe going into another controlled fx unit. To ease my pain, i use a motu xpress and run everything into it and let it distribute my tempest master clock. In the end, i am actually running the mmgt as a "slave" to my master clock, and the axe is reading it from the mmgt. The axe uses sysex mostly, so it isnt perfectly simple. If you plan on doing a larger setup, do youerself a favor and just get a midi gatweway and not be tied to using serial connections. the xpress runs standalone, so no computer needed, and it also lets you filter events per channel. It sounds wierd, bi directional midi AND another midi going to the mmgt, but it works. As for latency, I have run my e-drum midi into the mmgt, let it go thru the axe2 and out to the daw via USB while still using the midi cables for everything else. Less latency than my daw introduces for sure. Grats on the purchase! Be aware that you are in for a mind blowing amount of thinking. So many choices is great, but it can also make your head hurt. Fwiw, controllers usually go in front of sound modifiers in a midi chain. The axe is being controlled BY the mmgt, NOT the other way around. Yes its bi-directional, but aside from the tuner and name sync, you wouldnt notice if it wasnt. My mmgt controls everything in my studio, so I HAVE to have midi going out of it into the axe and the midi thru of the axe is going to my interface to spread it out on the rest of my devices. Again, the axe doesnt really control the mmgt, its the other way around. Also of note... I cant seem to get the axe to pass midi clock THRU to other devices, hence the need for a master interface with clock.
 
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I guess a simpler way to ask my original question is this:

Will the Axe-Fx be able to update the MMGT's IA on/off status buttons if bidirectional communication is OFF, but instead I have a MIDI cable connected from the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out straight to the MMGT's Remote In port?
 
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I tried what you asked. I am running a cable from the axe2 output, directly into the mmgt. I have set bi-dir midi on and off, i have set the unit to remote, I have tried with all the settings i can think of. So far, I cant get the mmgt to respond to messages from the axe midi out to the mmgt midi in. There may be a way, but im not sure of it. Besides, bidirectional midi is pretty darn cool anyhow. One cable for midi both ways with power is wonderful. I also went ahead and monitored the output from the midi out on the axe (with midiOx and my interface), to see what it puts out. I may be wrong, but it looks like the axe speaks in system exclusives and NOT standard midi (for outputs anyhow). Perhaps the mmgt was designed to read sysex on its bi-directional (output) socket, but run remotely with midi from its input socket. As far as i can tell, the axe IS NOT sending messages we can assign to on/off button states via its midi output. PLease someone correct me if im wrong. Quite frankly, using it as it was inteded with one cable for bidirectional, will save you a TON of headaches. All the presets in your axe can be automatically captured for you. All you have to do is make a page(s) with all the blocks you like to see, and it will update their states for every preset. Saves millions of man hours. If you get it right, you can use the controller or the knobs on the axe and they will both always show the current value.
 
Hmm, it should work using the individual input and output jacks. I will verify that it works with current firmware.
 
I've tried it with two cables to the Axe-Fx and bidirectional MIDI turned off using the latest firmware, and it's working here. So it's either a bad cable or a bad MIDI input on the GT. You've already ruled out the output on the Axe-Fx using your MIDI monitor.

I recommend trying another cable, and also use your MIDI interface to send PC messages to the GT's MIDI input. Make sure MIDI receive channel is set on the GT when you do this. See if you can get the GT to respond to any PCs.
 
I'll try some more things. I was testing to see if the axe would turn button states on/off via its midi out connection going to the mmgt midi input. I can get the button states to change via message when sent from the motu interface. I did get the gt to switch presets via its midi in, from the axe midi out. Still not seeing button states change, but im using bi-directional midi anyhow. Im going to assume you are correct Ron, and leave further testing up to you.
 
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Do any of the other features of the MIDI input connection work, like tap tempo flashing, tuner display, etc?
 
hey guys, here's my trip report so far with the Axe-Fx and two way communication.

In the first post of the thread I mentioned apprehension about the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out/Thru port being slower than a dedicated MIDI Thru port. I tried wiring my rig in that configuration anyway, where the Axe-Fx is the first thing the MMGT sees, MMGT MIDI Out -> Axe-Fx MIDI In, then the rest of my equipment is daisy chained starting from the Axe's MIDI Out/Thru port.

Everything works perfectly! Bidirectional communication is working flawlessly, and all of my other equipment responds instantly to changes. Looks like the Axe-Fx's MIDI Out/Thru port operates completely transparently and instantly.


As a side note, the MMGT is incredible. It does everything and couldn't be easier to program. Love this thing!
 
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There is probably latency, but its so small it doesnt seem to matter on most things. I get angry at anything above about 3-5ms, I am pretty sure it well under that. Glad you got it going, all that worry for nothing :)
 
Mr.E said:
In the action buttons:
Send on Preset Change - ON (strangely enough, this has to be on to only show the blocks used in that particular preset)
Update on Preset Change - ON
IA Link - ON
CC Link - ON
Same if you use Hold Mode
All the rest OFF

This seems to work for me but, even though the state of the buttons is updated immediately when changing scenes or presets, if you want to black out the blocks not used, you have to turn "Send on Preset Change" ON. Very strange logic.
Click to expand...

Do you use the GT in master or slave mode?

I'm using it in slave mode (that's where the GT will sync to the Axe-Fx preset).

Regular IA buttons do not require Send on Preset Change or Update on Preset Change to be ON.
That's only required when assigning a button (Normal or Hold) to an "external controller".

IA Link and CC Link can also be OFF.
 
I'm using the Axe-Fx in Slave Mode.
Sorry My bad.
I put this straight in another post.
Send on Preset Change - OFF
I changed all my presets and buttons and it works perfectly now.
 
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