Externally trigger presets/songs by CC?

T

TelosHedge

Member
Loving the Setlist/Song system for calling audibles in the middle of a show. I have Songs call up a Preset (I only run one preset per song), and the Preset sends out a CC to Ableton to select the correct click track.

However, I also need the other way around - I also need Ableton to send a message to the MMGT to select the proper preset (in most cases, Bandhelper sends midi info to Ableton to select a song for me.).

I have this working by having Ableton send PC messages to the MMGT, but if I add songs into the MMGT and/or reorder anything, it screws up the whole thing in Ableton. Is it possible to have presets get triggered by a CC, essentially like a CC link config with an IA button?

If there's a better way to accomplish all this that I haven't thought of, I'm all ears!
 
Songs and presets are recalled by number, always, so I can't think of any method that would work after changing the song and/or preset numbering.
 
Fair enough. In all honesty, the more I think about it, I don't have to have the Presets reordered and alphabetized everytime I make a change, as I'm selecting songs from the MMGT anyway. The songlist, it seems, I can reorder to my heart's content without affecting any of the programming on the DAW side.

It was just so pretty and organized the way I had it in my head!
 
I think I‘m doing something similar but I don’t use Ableton. I have all the PCs and CCs for my Axe FX III and my Voicelive Rack programmed into the MMGT. Bandhelper, sends a midi msg to the MMGT to pull up the song/preset on the MMGT. The MMGT in return sets up AF3 and VLR.

I just finished this re-organization, so as of now, on my MMGT the presets and songs are all in alphabetical order but you’re right, going forward when I add a song, I will have to tack it on to the end of the list. I think the alphabetical order was more important when I was first setting things up and wanted to find something quick in the MMGT editor. Hopefully when I am adding new songs I can do all the edits for that song and be done with it. What might be handy in the editor would be a seach bar for finding presets.
 
Thanks for the response Neil!

You're 100% right. The alphabetizing only matters at the beginning, and regardless of which way your data flow runs.

For the record, I did think about running data from BH the way that you did, but ultimately decided against it, as I'd need to have my MMGT up and running to select songs. My whole setup is based around the concept of being able to control things from a few different ways just in case. It's made the MIDI routing unbelievably complicated!
 
I think I’m able to do both. The only thing is I need MMGT to be able to send PC and CC to my Axe FX and Voicelive. But I have a footswitch set up to select songs just from within the MMGT and also a 2 footswitches to go forward and backward through the songs in bandhelper setlists.
 
I am almost done programming, at which time I'll post my rig and all of its madness!

I also use 'next song' and 'previous song' in BandHelper. That way there's nothing to program at the MMGT for every new show. The band makes a list, I load it up, and go.

Ableton handles all of my patch changes (Kemper, backing tracks, lighting, etc). I can override anything from the MMGT side, but it is not necessary for it to be setup to run the show - a strict requirement I had when starting out with this whole adventure.

More to come!
 
That sounds like a pretty cool set up. If I was playing to backing tracks (which I may do at some point), I would probably automate everything. I'd love to run the lights via midi. I look forward hearing more about your set up.
 
Neill00 said:
That sounds like a pretty cool set up. If I was playing to backing tracks (which I may do at some point), I would probably automate everything. I'd love to run the lights via midi. I look forward hearing more about your set up.
Click to expand...
Just about all of my programming is done for now, I think. I have some little things I want to get to, but for now I'm operational. My setup isn't much to look at, but there's a ton going on under the hood. I've never run so much MIDI in my life.

Basically, I have an MMGT 16 setup for bidi midi and power running into an iConnectivity mioXM, and a Kemper rack for hardware. On the software side I run QLC+ for lighting, Ableton Live, and BandHelper. I also run Mixing Station for my X32 but do no MIDI datastreams through it - I have read horror stories.

Ableton controls backing tracks, lighting cues (midi clips that trigger scenes in QLC, as well as drawn in pulses and fades via CC per clip), and 95% of my Kemper patches and effects block changes. I can override anything at anytime, however, from the floor.

The necessity for the mioXM unit came almost immediately when I realized how much 2 way data and crazy routing was going to be necessary to make it all work - especially if I wanted to run one cable to the MMGT. Here's all the streams that have to happen...

MMGT->Ableton (scene and transport control)
MMGT->QLC (lighting manual overrides)
MMGT->Kemper
MMGT->BandHelper (setlist next/previous)
Ableton->Kemper
Ableton->QLC (lighting)
Ableton->MMGT (preset feedback)
QLC->MMGT (lighting feedback)
BandHelper->Ableton (song/scene select)
Kemper->MMGT (feedback)
MIDI Clock is sent from Ableton to the Kemper, QLC, and the MMGT on its own specific port at all times to keep things tidy. (this was mandatory after upgrading to Big Sur for some reason - was ripping my hair out!)

There is even more insanity happening within Ableton itself, but that's for another day!

It was a lot to figure out, but it's all harmonious now. I can have the band dream up setlists on BandHelper on their own, get to the gig, and just run down the list without any programming. In addition, I can call an audible at any time using the Songs system and everything gets referenced to Ableton with a couple of foot presses. Once it's time to actually play a song, however, I find myself touching very little, aside from my expression pedals that I like having at all times for dialing in tones.

I also scale the whole rig down to an MMGT 10 for smaller gigs/another band. Really loving my new RJM ecosystem.

If you want to know more specifics on the insanity of the whole thing, feel free to reach out.
 
That’s way more complicated than I need. My set up is much simpler but I don’t have lights incorporated yet. For me basically it’s like this.
I run a single USB from my iPad Pro to my MMGT10 (USB C to USB B). Then I have a 25’ 7 pin midi from the MMGT to the Phantom Power adapter then midi in and out between the adaptor and my Axe FX 3. Then just midi through from the Axe FX to my Voicelive Rack. All the PC and CC for the Voicelive and the Axe FX are programmed into the MMGT so when a preset get called up on the MMGT it sends all the necessary changes to those 2 devices. Bandhelper just sends a midi message to the MMGT to pull up the preset when I select the song. I control some things in Bandhelper with the MMGT. Like you Previous and Next song but since I don’t play with backing tracks lyrics aren’t going to scroll as precisely. Sometimes I have to wait on the other guys to sip a beer etc. So I have a footswitch set up to restart current song and another to nudge the lyrics up or down if we get a little out of sync with the scroll. Scroll up is just a tap scroll down is the hold on the same footswitch. If I was going to midi the lights I would probably do it from Bandhelper in the automation. I couldn’t get anything really sync’d so I’m not sure it’s worth the effort but I could just to some fades and chases through out the song. Maybe black outs at the end of the songs and lights back up when I select the next song. You’ve given me some ideas of what I might need to make this happen so thanks for sharing your set up.
 
I see!

Using the USB port right up to your iPad is very clever indeed.

In terms of sync and clock, I can tell you from my experience I had some beat sync issues with BandHelper on the whole. Another band I play in plays to click tracks to keep us in check, but no backing tracks or lights are incorporated into the show. It was my intention to simply run clicks from BandHelper to keep things basic, but we actually had a lot of trouble with the clicks in BH not actually keeping good time (we recorded them and reviewed them later, it wasn't just us playing in bad time and blaming the app ;) ).

Unsure if that was your specific issue with sync but we have been much happier through Ableton for our scenarios.
 
No we haven't tried using the sync at all but that's due to lack of need. Personally I have a small metronome icon flashing in bandhelper so we can count in accurately. But we don't play to backing tracks and no one wants a click in their ear just for lights or so that I can have automated changes in my axe fx or voicelive.
 
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