USING STEREO EFFECTS

eveningsempire said:
is input 1 on the pbc6x a stereo input? I want to send a stereo synth I have into the switcher and maintain the stereo signal (if I skip loops 1-3). Should I run two ts mono lines into input 1 and 2?
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Input 1 is not a stereo input on its own, and while there are two inputs, they are not meant to be used for a stereo signal. Per the manual: "[Input 2] is a secondary unbuffered input for an additional instrument or alternate guitar signal."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
 
eveningsempire said:
is input 1 on the pbc6x a stereo input? I want to send a stereo synth I have into the switcher and maintain the stereo signal (if I skip loops 1-3). Should I run two ts mono lines into input 1 and 2?
Click to expand...
I did have a thought though - the MEGX is full stereo all the way through. You could use that with a separate MIDI controller to do what you're wanting to do. Might be a little less convenient since it requires two pieces of gear, but it would work!
 
Hi Ron, it's time for me to try this. I have a few questions...

My last 2 pedals (Loops 9 & 10) are the Timeline and Big Sky. I have no patch in any setlist that does not have a bit of Delay and some Reverb. With all the cabling issues and switch settings, should I remove them from loops 9 & 10 just connect the 2 amps from the Big Sky output (for cabling convenience)?

Loop 7 has a Boss CE chorus that has a single input that splits to L&R outputs. Can I use a standard trs cable from the output of the chorus back to the PBC, or does that need a special cable? Since the PBC will need to be set to stereo, does the Chorus pedal need a ring disconnect since it only has 1 input?

For the single amp/mono moments, I know I can simply remove the 1/4 (dual mono) cables from the Timeline and Big Sky (and the output B cable going into the Timeline), but what is my concern for the trs cable coming from the CE-2? Will that be folded back to mono, or do I need to swap out that trs cable with a mono cable returning to loop 7?

Thanks!
jm
 
JeffMarshMusic said:
Hi Ron, it's time for me to try this. I have a few questions...

My last 2 pedals (Loops 9 & 10) are the Timeline and Big Sky. I have no patch in any setlist that does not have a bit of Delay and some Reverb. With all the cabling issues and switch settings, should I remove them from loops 9 & 10 just connect the 2 amps from the Big Sky output (for cabling convenience)?

Loop 7 has a Boss CE chorus that has a single input that splits to L&R outputs. Can I use a standard trs cable from the output of the chorus back to the PBC, or does that need a special cable? Since the PBC will need to be set to stereo, does the Chorus pedal need a ring disconnect since it only has 1 input?

For the single amp/mono moments, I know I can simply remove the 1/4 (dual mono) cables from the Timeline and Big Sky (and the output B cable going into the Timeline), but what is my concern for the trs cable coming from the CE-2? Will that be folded back to mono, or do I need to swap out that trs cable with a mono cable returning to loop 7?

Thanks!
jm
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If you're never going to switch off the Timeline and Big Sky, then moving them out of the switcher makes sense, especially if you could use those loops for something else.

The chorus needs a ring disconnect on its input unless you're never going to use parallel routing. The output of the chorus should be an insert cable (TRS to 2xTS)

If you pull the right side plugs from the Timeline and Big Sky, you'll get the left side of the chorus into the left side of the Timeline into the left side of the Big Sky. So, basically a mono signal. This is pretty much ideal - any attempt to mix down the left and right sides of the chorus will result in little or no effect coming out due to phase cancellation. If it's a "stereo" chorus that has a chorus output and a dry output, there won't be phase issues, but you should make sure the chorus (non-dry) output is on the left side.
 
Thank you Ron, great advice.

I think the magic question is, can I cable in such a way that I can press a couple buttons on the back of the PBC and fold back to mono without having to swap cables? I'd be willing to forego Parallel if it meant a quick convenient switch back to mono.

If I avoid "Parallel" can I use basic TRS cables for loops 7-10, then fold back to mono from the PBC's switches? I will probably use TRS for the Big Sky and Timeline as well for the time being. The odd duck is the Boss CE chorus that has a mono in (& 2 jacks for stereo out), but it's in loop 7 which is before the Reverb and Delay pedals.

Thanks again for your guidance.
jm
 
JeffMarshMusic said:
Thank you Ron, great advice.

I think the magic question is, can I cable in such a way that I can press a couple buttons on the back of the PBC and fold back to mono without having to swap cables? I'd be willing to forego Parallel if it meant a quick convenient switch back to mono.

If I avoid "Parallel" can I use basic TRS cables for loops 7-10, then fold back to mono from the PBC's switches? I will probably use TRS for the Big Sky and Timeline as well for the time being. The odd duck is the Boss CE chorus that has a mono in (& 2 jacks for stereo out), but it's in loop 7 which is before the Reverb and Delay pedals.

Thanks again for your guidance.
jm
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The PBC, in its unmodified state, doesn't have the ability to mix down to mono. There is a modification that can be done that changes the Mono Output's buttons purpose to mix down both outputs. (Normally, it puts the left side signal through both outputs).

However, if you're using a stereo chorus, you probably should never mix down the stereo outputs for the reasons I mentioned above.
 
Thanks Ron, it sounds like I will need to swap the Y cables for normal ones if I need to go back to mono.
Can you confirm that I do not need any ring disconnect cables if I commit to not having parallel effects?

Also, you used to sell a device that was like a mini mixer (Mini Line Mixer?). Would such a device allow me to properly mix down to mono? The bottom level of my Schmidt Array is a nightmare for cabling. (it could be a Rig of the Day if I don't show what's under the hood LOL)

Thanks,
jm
 
Actually, now that I think about it, you really should use ring disconnect cables for any mono input pedals in loops 7-10. A mono cable in Send 7 can still interfere, even in series.

There isn't any one size fits all solution for mono mixdown. The stereo chorus is what messes things up, it's outputs just can't be mixed down in most cases. If I knew what the pedal was, and was able to get schematics, we might be able to get it to work by inverting the phase of the second output before mixing it down. But, we would need to understand how the pedal works to come up with a solution.

I don't think you would need to swap cables when going to mono, I'm pretty sure just unplugging the right input and output from the pedals would work.
 
rjmmusic said:
Actually, now that I think about it, you really should use ring disconnect cables for any mono input pedals in loops 7-10. A mono cable in Send 7 can still interfere, even in series.

There isn't any one size fits all solution for mono mixdown. The stereo chorus is what messes things up, it's outputs just can't be mixed down in most cases. If I knew what the pedal was, and was able to get schematics, we might be able to get it to work by inverting the phase of the second output before mixing it down. But, we would need to understand how the pedal works to come up with a solution.

I don't think you would need to swap cables when going to mono, I'm pretty sure just unplugging the right input and output from the pedals would work.
Click to expand...
So, ring disconnect for the boss CE 2W, and regular TRS Y cables (trs to 2 mono) for timeline, big sky, and H9, right?
 
Wouldn't mind a sanity check here. As soon as I started contemplating running an H9 in stereo and building split cables I starting pondering parallel and mixing, etc. I thought i was overthinking it but nope, need to prevent shorting things to ground and worry about splitting mono to stereo etc.

So in my case, all loops are mono and never in parallel up UNTIL loop 8 which is where all the time-based stuff sits. i have an EP booster inserted between loops 5/6 and 7/10 and then a klon-type OD in 7 just for further reference. Loops 8-10 are as follows:

mono -> adineko -> CarbonCopy -> H9 -> stereo out

My goals are to be able to:
- delay trails !!! (edit*)
- run the H9 in stereo
- put loops 8 and 9 in parallel (bonus for putting L8 or L9 in || with L10)
- run stereo out to two amps
- fold down to mono in a "nice way"
- losing the right side is probably fine
- mixing down to mono would be bonus (ensuring H9 presets are conf'ed to support that)

questions/assumptions:
1 - assuming i never put loop 7 in parallel, is normal cabling is OK? Or do i need to have a ring/tip short in order to feed any potential upstream stereo or parallel things?
2 - loops 8/9 would have to use ring-disconnect on input and ring-tip-short on output ?
3 - loop 10 has insert/Y cables for normal stereo operation
4 - in order to have the L/R summed to mono, PBC needs a mod ?

The mod has me interested if it's not too much surgery. This would allow retaining some/most of the character of stereo presets when too lazy to have two amps (provided presets are capable of mono fold-down) just by pressing a switch.

I'm about to put in another BTPA order to figured i should try to get some sanity checks before i need to do a follow up order :)

Here's my rig-in-progress for reference:

Switcher swap - upgrade to PBC10

Almost done, old switchers were too small for my big feet and i didn't like the switching actuation logic. I was gonna re-house that dano pedal but there's not too much room for that, may leave it in plastic. I started to wonder about parallel and stereo options on loops 8-10 and i think i...
www.rjmmusic.com www.rjmmusic.com
 
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bschwinn said:
questions/assumptions:
1 - assuming i never put loop 7 in parallel, is normal cabling is OK? Or do i need to have a ring/tip short in order to feed any potential upstream stereo or parallel things?
2 - loops 8/9 would have to use ring-disconnect on input and ring-tip-short on output ?
3 - loop 10 has insert/Y cables for normal stereo operation
4 - in order to have the L/R summed to mono, PBC needs a mod ?
Click to expand...

All of the loops 7-10 need to have the recommended cables as mentioned at the top of the thread, you can't use mono cables anywhere in those loops if even one loop is stereo. I may have said differently in the past, but it's become evident to me now that you have to use the special cables.

Yes, the PBC needs a mod to mixdown to mono. Install 330 ohm resistors in R75 and R77, removing the wire from R75 first. Install a 20k resistor in R76. All of the resistors are located near the Mono Output switch.

bschwinn said:
The mod has me interested if it's not too much surgery. This would allow retaining some/most of the character of stereo presets when too lazy to have two amps (provided presets are capable of mono fold-down) just by pressing a switch.

I'm about to put in another BTPA order to figured i should try to get some sanity checks before i need to do a follow up order :)

Here's my rig-in-progress for reference:

Switcher swap - upgrade to PBC10

Almost done, old switchers were too small for my big feet and i didn't like the switching actuation logic. I was gonna re-house that dano pedal but there's not too much room for that, may leave it in plastic. I started to wonder about parallel and stereo options on loops 8-10 and i think i...
www.rjmmusic.com www.rjmmusic.com
Click to expand...
 
rjmmusic said:
All of the loops 7-10 need to have the recommended cables as mentioned at the top of the thread, you can't use mono cables anywhere in those loops if even one loop is stereo. I may have said differently in the past, but it's become evident to me now that you have to use the special cables.

Yes, the PBC needs a mod to mixdown to mono. Install 330 ohm resistors in R75 and R77, removing the wire from R75 first. Install a 20k resistor in R76. All of the resistors are located near the Mono Output switch.
Click to expand...

thanks for the quick reply and that makes sense... so put slightly different, loops 7-10 are stereo, you can use all mono pedals or all true stereo in/out pedals, if you mix/match, the ring connection becomes terribly important :)

I will wire loops 7,8,9 with ring-disconnects on the sends and ring-tip-shorts on the returns, then Y cables for L10 send/return.

once more question, omitted one of my main goals earlier, will delay trails work in loops 8/9/10 ?

Re: the mod, that doesn't sound too bad, will contact in the future if i have questions.

now get in my BTPA order...
 
bschwinn said:
once more question, omitted one of my main goals earlier, will delay trails work in loops 8/9/10 ?
Click to expand...

Yes, if the loops are set to parallel and trails, and as long as your effects are also capable of maintaining trails. For example, an H9 will lose trails if you send a program change to it. But trails will work when switching presets on the PBC but remaining on the same H9 preset.
 
I have read the instructions about stereo loops in the manual and a lot of things in this thread, but I am still confused. Anyway I would like to use in Loops 7 to 10 of my PBC10 three Stereo Pedals. I have a Quad Cortex with Presets which have typically a Stereo Delay which I don't want to loose when I use the PBC10. I want to use Loops 7 and 8 for two Quantum Time Modulator Pedals. These Pedals have one Mono Input Jack (which is strictly Mono) and one Output Jack which can send a Stereo Signal when using the right TRS Cable. In Loop 9 I want to use the EHX Stereo Talking Machine which also has one strictly Mono Input Jack and two Output Jacks in order to send a Stereo Signal out.
So what settings and what cables are needed to make this work? And is it better or even necessary to use those Stereo Pedals in parallel?
 
Loop 7: ring disconnect on the Send, TRS cable on the return
Loop 8: ring disconnect on the Send, TRS cable on the return
Loop 9: ring disconnect on the Send, insert cable on the return

The Mono -> Stereo (out) button should be in the out position. Mono Output should also be in the out position.

Running the effects in parallel is not necessary, it's just going to give a different sound. Note that, you generally don't want to use route a pedal in parallel unless you can set it to be 100% wet. Running multiple effects in parallel with both wet and dry signals will boost the signal level more for each pedal you activate.
 
rjmmusic said:
Loop 7: ring disconnect on the Send, TRS cable on the return
Loop 8: ring disconnect on the Send, TRS cable on the return
Loop 9: ring disconnect on the Send, insert cable on the return

The Mono -> Stereo (out) button should be in the out position. Mono Output should also be in the out position.

Running the effects in parallel is not necessary, it's just going to give a different sound. Note that, you generally don't want to use route a pedal in parallel unless you can set it to be 100% wet. Running multiple effects in parallel with both wet and dry signals will boost the signal level more for each pedal you activate.
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Thank you very much! This is very helpful. Just for clarification: Would this mean if I follow your instructions that I can use the Stereo Pedals in the Loops 7 - 9 without loosing the Stereo Delay which comes from the Quad Cortex? That's the part which I find so confusing because those Stereo Pedals have a Mono Input. And normally I would say if you feed a Stereo Effect into a Mono Input, you loose the Stereo Effect.
 
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I wasn't sure where the Quad Cortex was placed - if it's after loops 7-10, you'll be ok. If it's before, then you will lose the stereo signal when loop 7 or loop 8 are active, unless you run loops 7-10 in parallel.
 
rjmmusic said:
I wasn't sure where the Quad Cortex was placed - if it's after loops 7-10, you'll be ok. If it's before, then you will lose the stereo signal when loop 7 or loop 8 are active, unless you run loops 7-10 in parallel.
Click to expand...
That's exactly why I was asking. The Signal Chain is Guitar -> Quad Cortex -> H90 -> PBC10 -> apollo x8. The PBC10 is connected as a Stereo Loop to the H90. So then I will try what you have advised me: I will run the loops 7-10 in parallel. Is there a possibility in the Editor to run the loops in parallel or only on the device? Because I haven't found this option in the editor. Until now I have kept things quite simple only running mono loops and I never cared about the mixer. Now I wonder if I run the loops in parallel what would be the best mixer setting. At the end it is clear that I have to make certain decisions by myself because I guess maybe in some cases it doesn't matter so much to loose the stereo signal from the Quad Cortex while in other cases it does. I think a lot of things with the PBC10 are pretty straightforward, but managing stereo loops feels quite complicated at least for me. I think it would be more user friendly for example if all the options you need for this would be completely integrated in the editor, but it seems that you have to press a certain button on the device in order to get loops to run in parallel. Anyway I don't want to be too picky. I really appreciate your good advice.
 
In the global Audio tab of the editor, there are options to switch loops 7-10 between series and parallel.
 
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