Your PBC6X / HX Stomp set ups

Dimitri Papadimitriou

Well-Known Member
After seeing a bunch of vids on PBC button pages and the amazing configurability, I was wondering how some of you set up your PBC with HX to make presets?

For example: JamesAGuitar on youtube made a vid and showed how he used IA buttons to make certain buttons actual pages of presets. He controls all his gain pedals on one page and delays on another.

Im using midi to control the HX obviously. Im trying to avoid the dreaded sound drop by changing presets vs snapshots on HX. Is it best to setup a preset with a few blocks you need on HX and use snapshots to alter sound? Or should you call up individual blocks?

My set up goes

guitar > wah > compressor > HX in

HX fx loop L > PBC6X in

In PBC I have 7 loops:

1. Flanger
2. OD
3. Muff
4. Tube preamp I use as clean channel
5. Tube preamp I use as dirt channel
6. Chorus
Insert loop: Boost pedal

all that goes back into HX FX loop return

HX out > amp FX return to use power amp/speaker

Any tips, advice, or PBC setups you could share? The more explicative the better. I understand a good bit of it, and have made some stuff work with Rons help...but some of the IA messages/ CC messages / PBC editor can be confusing and daunting.

Thanks.
 

PianoMan

Well-Known Member
After seeing a bunch of vids on PBC button pages and the amazing configurability, I was wondering how some of you set up your PBC with HX to make presets?

For example: JamesAGuitar on youtube made a vid and showed how he used IA buttons to make certain buttons actual pages of presets. He controls all his gain pedals on one page and delays on another.

Im using midi to control the HX obviously. Im trying to avoid the dreaded sound drop by changing presets vs snapshots on HX. Is it best to setup a preset with a few blocks you need on HX and use snapshots to alter sound? Or should you call up individual blocks?

My set up goes

guitar > wah > compressor > HX in

HX fx loop L > PBC6X in

In PBC I have 7 loops:

1. Flanger
2. OD
3. Muff
4. Tube preamp I use as clean channel
5. Tube preamp I use as dirt channel
6. Chorus
Insert loop: Boost pedal

all that goes back into HX FX loop return

HX out > amp FX return to use power amp/speaker

Any tips, advice, or PBC setups you could share? The more explicative the better. I understand a good bit of it, and have made some stuff work with Rons help...but some of the IA messages/ CC messages / PBC editor can be confusing and daunting.

Thanks.

Hey! I'll attach my setup file for reference. I use an HX Stomp, and I really like the system I've come up with.

First off, I only really use one preset on my HX Stomp. As such, I don't send it any PC messages from the PBC. If I need to change something, I'll do it manually. I did this for the same reason you're asking - avoiding the signal drops on preset changes. My main preset contains an EQ for neck pickup work, three modulation effects (vibrato, chorus, tremelo), a stereo FX loop (containing my delay and reverb so I can route them as desired if I ever use the Stomp's amp modeling), and a 10ms delay on just the R output (to widen stereo image in IEMs).

To control it, I have a page on my PBC 6/X devoted to the HX Stomp, plus a button for my EQ is on my gain pedal page. The main page contains three IA buttons on the bottom row to control the bypass state of the three modulation FX I have in my main preset. The top row is three grouped buttons to control the HX Stomp's snapshot. For the most part I have my mod effects set up so that snapshot 1 is pretty subtle, and they get more and more distinct from there.

Note that this setup requires you to disable the snapshot bypass of pretty much everything in HX Edit (right click each effect and it's at the bottom of the option list that pops up). This prevents the HX Stomp from tracking bypass state of effects when you switch snapshots, leaving it all up to MIDI control.

So to answer your questions...I personally think that putting everything in one preset is the ideal way to go. If need be, you could always create a few presets with different combinations of effects with the intention of only switching presets between songs (I know of a few pros who do that).
 

Attachments

  • Mastermind PBC 6X Setup.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 32

kitemonkey

Well-Known Member
I do similar to the above, though I have a few dedicated patches, one for my usual day to day clean tone that has a few things in the patch, an acoustic patch for my piezos and then a lead patch that contains the stupid pet tricks. They line up based on what PBC patch I am using.
 

moehuh

Member
I use my Stomp in loop 8 of my PBC10 in a hybrid way:
- Direct to FOH after the board: With amp modulation always on and certain effects on only if needed
- In front of real amps, with the same presets (for the effects only) but obviously without amp modulation
- Amp into load box into the Stomp with just the IRs on then FOH

I use the same song presets on the PBC (thus must be the same presets on the Stomp) and it has to be flexible enough to immediately change from one setup to the other (no editing with computer).

My original idea, when I first got the Stomp, was to use one preset for one sound. You can use an IA button that turns amp modulation on or off through MIDI CCs (or just have snapshots with amps on or off). That does work great, but as you already mentioned there is a short sound drop, which is a big no-no (this is probably the biggest flaw of the Stomp IMO. The new Boss GT 1000 core fixed this...).

So here's what I ended up doing:
I use the same basic preset structure with the same amps & IRs and then just change effects on different presets. If I use a specific effect in a song, I select the preset containing this effect on all PBC presets for that song. Like this, I don't change presets during a song, but rather toggle certain effects on or off through an IA button on the PBC.

E.g.:
I'm playing song "X" and use preset "02" on the Stomp for all PBC presets of this song. On the bridge I want tremolo, so the PBC preset "bridge" has one IA button that turns the tremolo block on. On the other PBC presets for that song it's turned off.
On the PBC I have 3 different IA buttons programmed with 3 different CC numbers (send on preset change is ON & update state on preset change is ON and IA action is CC toggle #4 off:0 on:127). On the Stomp you need to define which block reacts to which CC message and you're good to go.

To deal with turning amp simulation on or off, I use an IA button that sends CC messages on every PBC preset change, but does not update itself. It behaves like a global IA button. This can be achieved by setting "Send on Preset change" to ON and "Update State on Preset change" to OFF. I have CC number #7 and #8 for the amp and IR blocks respectively, so I can "override" the on/off state on the amp and IR blocks after the Stomp preset is loaded (PC messages are sent before CC). Works pretty well like that.

When I change from real amps to amp sim I have to:
- select the IA button that sends CC "ON" to amp and IR blocks on the Stomp
- turn loop 8 to always on in the global menu of the PBC (otherwise loop 8 is only on when I use an effect. In the above example only on the "bridge" preset)
- set the output to line level instead of instrument level on the Stomp

I'm quite happy with how it works. Gives me the flexibility I was looking for, while letting me keep all my PBC presets exactly the same.

However, I'm looking forward to the 3.0 firmware on the Stomp, which will give us 8 blocks! Of course you still have DSP limitations, but right now my default setup has 4 blocks taken by amps & IRs...
 

PianoMan

Well-Known Member
To deal with turning amp simulation on or off, I use an IA button that sends CC messages on every PBC preset change, but does not update itself. It behaves like a global IA button. This can be achieved by setting "Send on Preset change" to ON and "Update State on Preset change" to OFF. I have CC number #7 and #8 for the amp and IR blocks respectively, so I can "override" the on/off state on the amp and IR blocks after the Stomp preset is loaded (PC messages are sent before CC). Works pretty well like that.

When I change from real amps to amp sim I have to:
- select the IA button that sends CC "ON" to amp and IR blocks on the Stomp
- turn loop 8 to always on in the global menu of the PBC (otherwise loop 8 is only on when I use an effect. In the above example only on the "bridge" preset)
- set the output to line level instead of instrument level on the Stomp

This is genius! If I ever get into a situation where I need to switch between real amps and modeling, I'm 100% stealing this idea.
 

moehuh

Member
Thanks guys! Happy to give you some inspiration, I've spent quite some time figuring it out ;-)
As great as the amp modeling on the Helix is, nothing beats two real amps in stereo. Being able to switch to whatever I feel like atm is awesome!

You can also use snapshots the same way my amp&cab IA button is configured. Either as replacement for the on/off or additionally for having different settings (I use mind for one cleaner base sound, one more breaking up and one when using a tube amp into load box because I need different IRs). Just make a group with only one active or have a step IA button to never send two snapshot CCs.
Don't forget to deactivate snapshot bypass in the Stomp on every block which is turned on or off by MIDI CCs. This is very important when using snapshots because the PBC sends multiple CCs and it depends on what arrives first (if the snapshot change arrives after turning one block on/off, it will override to the snapshot's bypass state. With PC alone it doesn't matter as CCs are sent later PC)
 

REFAGAEM

Well-Known Member
My effect chain is almost all analog in 4CM system.

The HX Stomp is connected to the Right output of the PBC, the Left output is routed to the Return of the Amplifier (Victory deluxe).

the Speaker output of the Amp goes into a Torpedo Captor X which goes to mixing desk. This is the Dry sound in stereo ( i'm a poor lonesome guitarist in a cover band ;)).

The Right output of the PBC feeds the Left input of the HX.

The HX effects chain:

AMP + CAB +EQ Para+SPLIT, one path to REV (Mix 100%), second path to DELAY (Mix 100%) in parallel + MIXER+ STEREO WIDTH, to output.

The HX Stomp LR goes to 2 other channels of the Mixing Desk and this is the Wet sound.

On each preset the PBC is programmed to make the snapshots change certain settings on the HX during play.

The Right input of the HX Stomp is for Acoustic Guitar and there is an effects chain and specific settings to feed the Mixing Desk
For the moment it's what suits me best, but as soon as the HX has 8 blocks I'll make sure to connect all my Pedal Board in 4CM in the HX for the gigs where I don't use an amp.
 

Dimitri Papadimitriou

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys! Happy to give you some inspiration, I've spent quite some time figuring it out ;-)
As great as the amp modeling on the Helix is, nothing beats two real amps in stereo. Being able to switch to whatever I feel like atm is awesome!

You can also use snapshots the same way my amp&cab IA button is configured. Either as replacement for the on/off or additionally for having different settings (I use mind for one cleaner base sound, one more breaking up and one when using a tube amp into load box because I need different IRs). Just make a group with only one active or have a step IA button to never send two snapshot CCs.
Don't forget to deactivate snapshot bypass in the Stomp on every block which is turned on or off by MIDI CCs. This is very important when using snapshots because the PBC sends multiple CCs and it depends on what arrives first (if the snapshot change arrives after turning one block on/off, it will override to the snapshot's bypass state. With PC alone it doesn't matter as CCs are sent later PC)
any chance you would share your .rjs file like Pianoman did? It's helpful when you investigate it? Thanks for all the great advice though to all.
 

moehuh

Member
any chance you would share your .rjs file like Pianoman did? It's helpful when you investigate it? Thanks for all the great advice though to all.

I removed all other pages, so it's easier to find and understand. I have a dedicated page for the HX Stomp on page 4.
The only other important part is the Button Group 2 in the Global tab. It is configured to turn amps and IRs on, when the IR only or amp&cab off button is NOT selected.

Have fun :)
 

Attachments

  • HXStomp-PBC.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 23

Dimitri Papadimitriou

Well-Known Member
thank you so very much. Got some configuring to do.. I have a PBC6X and not 10. But I'm going to reread and explore and see if I can't figure out. Pianoman Drew had a great little set up too with his Stomp above.
 

moehuh

Member
thank you so very much. Got some configuring to do.. I have a PBC6X and not 10. But I'm going to reread and explore and see if I can't figure out. Pianoman Drew had a great little set up too with his Stomp above.

I forgot that you cannot migrate settings to the 6X. But once you understand the basic idea, it should be straight forward to program for the 6X
 

JavyMontoya

Member
Hey! I'll attach my setup file for reference. I use an HX Stomp, and I really like the system I've come up with.

First off, I only really use one preset on my HX Stomp. As such, I don't send it any PC messages from the PBC. If I need to change something, I'll do it manually. I did this for the same reason you're asking - avoiding the signal drops on preset changes. My main preset contains an EQ for neck pickup work, three modulation effects (vibrato, chorus, tremelo), a stereo FX loop (containing my delay and reverb so I can route them as desired if I ever use the Stomp's amp modeling), and a 10ms delay on just the R output (to widen stereo image in IEMs).

To control it, I have a page on my PBC 6/X devoted to the HX Stomp, plus a button for my EQ is on my gain pedal page. The main page contains three IA buttons on the bottom row to control the bypass state of the three modulation FX I have in my main preset. The top row is three grouped buttons to control the HX Stomp's snapshot. For the most part I have my mod effects set up so that snapshot 1 is pretty subtle, and they get more and more distinct from there.

Note that this setup requires you to disable the snapshot bypass of pretty much everything in HX Edit (right click each effect and it's at the bottom of the option list that pops up). This prevents the HX Stomp from tracking bypass state of effects when you switch snapshots, leaving it all up to MIDI control.

So to answer your questions...I personally think that putting everything in one preset is the ideal way to go. If need be, you could always create a few presets with different combinations of effects with the intention of only switching presets between songs (I know of a few pros who do that).
I'm getting my feet wet here and this really opened up my eyes. Thanks for sharing this, to share all that work is super helpful. How are you switching pages?
 

PianoMan

Well-Known Member
I actually use a Morningstar MC8 to switch pages on my PBC. I get a lot of questions on why I do that, so I made this video a few months ago:

 

JavyMontoya

Member
Wow that's killer! You could put on a clinic lol. That's helpful thank you. I think to keep it minimal, I'll use the hold functions for page switches and changing banks. Your set-up rocks man!
 

Dimitri Papadimitriou

Well-Known Member
That's amazing man. You inspired me to snag an MC6 to do similar things. I was wondering if you think the MC6 could do double duty:

To control pages on the PBC, but then if I needed I could transfer the MC6 to my smaller board and set it up to control certain features on the HX alone? Like page up for presets, or change snapshots in conjuction with turning on certain blocks.

I love how you did so much stuff.
 

PianoMan

Well-Known Member
That's amazing man. You inspired me to snag an MC6 to do similar things. I was wondering if you think the MC6 could do double duty:

To control pages on the PBC, but then if I needed I could transfer the MC6 to my smaller board and set it up to control certain features on the HX alone? Like page up for presets, or change snapshots in conjuction with turning on certain blocks.

I love how you did so much stuff.
Thanks! I absolutely love this rig. I've more than put it through its paces, and it's been rock solid. Don't see myself changing anything about it anytime soon.

You could definitely set up the MC6 for multiple rigs - the trick is in setting it up so that you can switch between the pages of each rig easily, but only when you want to. Personally I'd set up a long press command on a main page that takes you to the dedicated HX Page(s), and something similar on the HX Page to take you back to the PBC page(s).
 

Dimitri Papadimitriou

Well-Known Member
another question. Let's say I decided against a separate controller. Technically, I could set up 1-2 whole page of buttons in the PBC 6/X to control most of all the features in the HX. IE....page 1 - three of the buttons could control snapshots, one button for tap tempo, one for tuner Page 2 could be Footswitches 1-5 and tuner?
 
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