Parallel/Series questions

T

Teel Merrick

Member
I am toying with re-wiring my board to utilize the amazing effects loop in my 3rd Power Dual Citizen amp but I need help understanding how things interact and work together in PBC. The rig is mono and so is my board. I used the effects loop diagram from the PBC manual to wire it.

The pedals in the effects loop are the Caroline Meteore, TimeLine, Big Sky, and Neunaber Slate.

Question 1: I know on the big sky and timeline you can use the kill dry function. How does that interact with pedals that don't have that option?

Question 2: When using the effects loop, is it best to use the parallel option in the PBC?

Question 3: if one loop in the effects loop is set to parallel should all the pedals in the effects loop be set to parallel?

Question 4: how does the dry signal button under the settings page play into the effects loop setup?

Question 5: how do the three buffers interact with a setup like this? Should all three be on in this setup?

Thanks guys!
 
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rjmmusic said:
I saw your email before seeing this post, so your response was emailed....
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I'm a very new PBC owner as well and this is the first time I have a rig that has a parallel/series option. I would very much appreciate hearing your thoughts on this situation.
I have a Hughes & Kettner Duotone amp that has a parallel effects loop. I am running everything mono with a Catalinbread Belle Epoch, TC Electronics Chorus, Strymon Timeline and a Mobius in loops 7-10.

1)How does a parallel routing system and a parallel effect loop work together?
When using the effects loop on my amp should loops 7-10 be set to series?

2) The Catalinbread has the ability to kill dry, but that also means I would have to have its effect level ALL the way up. Right now I am using the Belle Epoch with the mix set at a about 8pm. What is the generally accepted method for using a pedal such as this in a parallel system? Will setting the pedal to anything less than kill dry causing phasing or volume issues?

3) Sometimes I will not be using my amp and an amp with a effects loop will not be available. For this situation, I would then need to create 2 sets of presets; 1 for an effects loop and another for Amps w/o an effect loop. Yes?

BTW... So far I am loving my PBC.
It is a wonderful unit. I haven't got onto the deep editing yet, so I may have some more questions for you at a later date.
I am long time guitar player, but 1st time MIDI user

Thank you for your assistance.
 
If you already have a parallel effects loop, and that can't be changed, then you need to run all of your PBC loops in series. Otherwise, you'll be running a parallel system inside another parallel system, and you'll end up with lots of dry signal and not a lot of effect.

EDIT: A correction to the above. You can run the pedals in parallel in the PBC, and still run those effects in a parallel effects loop. You do need pedals that can be set 100% wet. Just remember to turn off the dry signal in the pedals and in the PBC. Then it'll be fine.

If you can't set a pedal to 100% wet, it's going to limit its usefulness in a parallel system. Since it's a delay pedal, I don't expect any phasing issues - those problems are actually flanging due to the short latency of digital pedals, and adding delay time to that negates any flanging that might happen. As for volume issues, you might have them, not sure because I've never used that pedal. You'll have to just try it and see what happens.

You probably don't need a second set of presets for use without an effects loop, unless you have MIDI controllable pedals and you want to dial them in differently for use in front of the amp.
 
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Great. Thank you for the information. This makes a lot of sense to me. I've been running everything in front of the amp so far, but wanted to use the effect loop.
Much Appreciated.
 
Get a custom junction box that allows you to run mono or stereo or all in front or in the fx loop depending on which inputs and outputs you use.
 
My Mesa V-Twin preamp has a parallel loop so i've to use the PBC loops only in serial mode. In this way, for example, my chorus will run into the delay and then into the reverb, not following a separate line as i will do by the parallel mode? It' s right?
 
I'm going to need to correct my previous comment above - it's not 100% correct.

As long as you can set your pedals 100% wet, you can run your effects in parallel in the PBC and put it in a parallel effects loop. Just make sure that you turn off the dry signal in the PBC.
 
Here's my response:

Generally, I don't recommend using parallel routing with any pedal that does not have the ability to set kill dry or to be dialed 100% wet. Putting pedals in parallel that have dry signal in their output will cause level jumps when you turn those pedals on. If you set all of your pedals 100% wet, then use the PBC's internal dry send to the mixer, then you can switch the pedals in and out of your signal path without any level issues. (That's what the dry signal button does - it adds the dry signal into the mix, effectively routing it around the parallel pedals and mixing it in with the parallel pedals' outputs.)

There's no requirement that all pedals need to be parallel if one is parallel. In your case, I would recommend putting the killdry capable pedals in the last loops, with non killdry pedals before them. Then you can set the killdry pedals to parallel and they will still receive the signal from all the series effects before them.

Once you've done that, you can try the pedals in parallel and series and see which you like better - it's not really a case of one option being better than the other, they're just different. You will find, however, that running lots of effects will sound cleaner in parallel because you're not applying reverb to delay repeats or vice-versa.

The buffers should be kept on, especially in a parallel setup - the buffers help deal with the fact that the signal is being split in order to feed all of the parallel pedals. If you find you have a pedal that interacts badly with buffers (for example, a fuzz), you can always program the first buffer to be off in those presets where you use the fuzz. The other two generally can be left on.
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I’ m having a problem with loop 7 and 8 in parallel mode. When i turn the loop, 7 or 8, from serial to parallel and then turn it off the sound mute immediatly. This doesn’t happen with loop 9 and 10. Some ideas about it?
 
Livio said:
I’ m having a problem with loop 7 and 8 in parallel mode. When i turn the loop, 7 or 8, from serial to parallel and then turn it off the sound mute immediatly. This doesn’t happen with loop 9 and 10. Some ideas about it?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure... how is the Dry signal set? Is it changing at all?
 
I recommend saving your settings, then factory resetting the PBC. Try settings loops 7 and 8 to parallel and see if the problem still exists. This will tell us if it's your PBC or the settings that have the problem.
 
rjmmusic said:
I recommend saving your settings, then factory resetting the PBC. Try settings loops 7 and 8 to parallel and see if the problem still exists. This will tell us if it's your PBC or the settings that have the problem.
Click to expand...
Ok
 
1)DRY button OFF, LOOP 7 and 8 in parallel mode, turnin off one or both loops i have no signal.
2)DRY button ON, LOOP 7 and 8 in parallel mode, turnin off one or both loops i have signal
If i switch loop 7 and 8 in series mode this not happens.
This not happens with loop 9 and 10 doin the same
 
What happens when you unplug the pedals from loops 7 and 8? And, what happens if you move the pedal from loop 9 to loop 7 or 8?
 
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