PBC running with GT16?

Each device can report song and preset changes to the other using bank and PC messages. The GT can send CCs to the PBC to control the PBCs loops. All these things work like a standard MIDI device does, and all of this is independent of how your buttons are assigned. There isn't any direct mapping of "this button on this controller turns on that button on that controller". It's more like "this button selects the third preset in the fourth song, which tells the other controller to select the third preset in the fourth song". Or, "this button sends CC#30, which turns on loop 1 on the PBC".
 
Yes that makes sense Ron. This is all a learning curve but your patience and detialed replies have been invaluable so far.

PLease see my reply in my other post about Ethernet as it refers to specifics of this setup and Bidirectional midi.
 
Hi Ron, so finally getting somewhere with this rig build. but hit a wall!

As you'll remember from this post, I'm trying to get the PBC and GT16 to talk to each other via bidirectional midi.

I've now made all preset, songs and set lists in the PBC editor and exported that to the GT16.
All devices entries identical across both units
I've pretty much refined all my button layouts for each device.
Both units running in song/setlist mode where each song/preset has its on local button pages for an easy gig work flow.

I also followed all your instructions for the midi setup between units. quadruple checked!

Im using a high quality 5 pin din midi cable where all 5 pins are active.

What I was expecting was presets, song and setlist changes to be mirrored between both units, and hopefully the local button pages for the songs/presets would be mirrored with bank and preset changes.

So far I'm getting no bidirectional communication.... The loop and preset changes on the GT16 are registered with the PBC but there these are not actually mirrored where the PBC's presets and songs change in sync.
There is no communication happening from PBC to GT16 at all!

I've attached my files for both units.

If you wouldn't mind, could you try doing my set up with a PBC and GT16 and see where I'm going wrong?

help is always greatly appreciated.
 

Attachments

  • PBC to GT Pre:Songs:Set trans 1.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 2
  • PBC 2 presets.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 1
Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to get full bidirectional communication between the two. If you look at my message from May 3:

Page changes will not be mirrored between units, only preset and song changes. Loop changes on the GT will be registered on the PBC, but loop changes on the PBC will not be registered on the GT.
 
Ok, make these changes:

1). On the GT, edit the PBC device entry to have the following settings:
- MIDI Channel 1
- MIDI Port - MIDI Out
- Max PC 127
- PC Offset 0
- Bank Type MSB:LSB
- Flat numbering on
- # of presets 768
- Send PCs on
- all other checkboxes off
Now, click Set Preset PCs to sequential. Answer Yes at the prompt

2). On the PBC, edit the GT device entry to have the following settings:
- MIDI Channel 1
- MIDI Port - MIDI IN
- Max PC 127
- PC Offset 0
- Bank Type MSB:LSB
- Flat numbering on
- # of presets 768
- Send PCs on
- all other checkboxes off
Now, click Set Preset PCs to sequential. Answer Yes at the prompt

3). On both devices, make sure that "MIDI Bank Selects Song" is turned off. This is in the Globals tab on GT and MIDI tab on PBC

Send settings to both. This made it work in my testing here. The problem was that one of the devices (can't remember which) wasn't set up to send PC messages to the other. This makes sure that each preset change on one device is reported to the other device.
 
ok ron, ill give this a go tomorrow.

So to be clear, if a song or preset change is made on either the PBC or GT16, that action is changing the matching song or preset on the on the other unit... so what will happen visually on between units? surely that action will also change the corresponding local page for that preset on the other unit as thats what happens if you were changing preset on the other unit anyway? and there for, be a visible representation that the song/preset has been changed??
or will the other unit simply remain in the previous state it was in/page it was on?

thats basically all I'm after as far as syncing between the PBC and GT16. I can make song and preset changes on the PBC and watching the GT16 at that same time will look as if those changes were being made without pressing the GT16 buttons?! and vice versa.

does that make sense?
 
Only preset numbers are being communicated between units, so for example if you select preset 5 on one unit, the other one will act as if you selected preset 5. You're correct that anything that's supposed to happen when preset 5 is selected (page selection, button state changes, etc.) will still happen - on both units.

What I was referring to above are non-preset changes. For example, if you manually turn on Loop 6 on the PBC, it will not communicate that back to the GT. Using CC Link, you should be able to get that working as well, but it can get complicated if you want to synchronize a lot of features.
 
Hi Ron. so to keep you updated here as this became a bit of a saga haha and I've been so grateful of all your quick responses time taken to help with my issues!

SO, it all works just as required! everything i that is possible to be "synced" is synced between units. AMAZING.

but now i have another issue; there is a small bit of lag when pressing preset buttons on the GT16 and that preset being activated. Is there a way to make button presses respond more instantaneously? or is there a deeper issue here?
 
Hard to say- are you generating a lot of MIDI messages in each preset? And how are you measuring/observing the lag?
 
Not a lot of midi going on really. 4 songs have preset changes in reverb and delay pedals then it's just usually 2-6 loop changes per preset.

Just noticing really it's not quite an instant change in audio when preset button pressed... Haven't actually timed it but its enough to slightly throw the guitarist a bit.
 

Attachments

  • PBC all presets and locals.rjs
    2.2 MB · Views: 0
  • Export Full pres songs with new names PBC to GT16.rjs
    2.3 MB · Views: 0
There is quite a bit going on. One thing that jumps out at me is the group of buttons on the GT that control loops on the PBC. Each one of those buttons will send its status to the PBC when you change presets on the GT. Since presumably, you have those GT buttons programmed to match the actual state of the loops in each preset, you don't need each loop button to send individually.

What your GT doing upon preset change is something like this:

GT tells PBC to select preset 1
GT tells PBC to turn off loop 1
GT tells PBC to turn off loop 2
GT tells PBC to turn on loop 3
GT tells PBC to turn off loop 4
...
etc.

But, the PBC probably only needs that first preset selection message - the PBC preset already knows which loops are supposed to be on.

Try turning off Send on Preset Change for each of those buttons on the GT that control PBC loops. You can still program which buttons turn on or off for each preset, but they won't generate MIDI messages until you actually step on each button to change the loop state.

I'm not 100% certain this will help, but it will get rid of 10 unnecessary MIDI messages sent per preset change.
 
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