Alternate stereo loops before preamp and effects loop

[Derek McCarthy]

I still haven't finished wiring up my pedalboard because I'm having way too much fun experimenting with the PBC, different amps, pedals, etc.. I'm not sure how to finish it off because I'm trying to find the optimal way of moving my stereo delay from before the preamp into the effects loop. I have one song in particular that requires the stereo delay before the preamp.. but with others it should be in the effects loop. I don't think there's any way to accomplish this without physically changing a few cables every time. Just curious if anyone else has any ideas or suggestions.

Cheers,

Derek.

 

[AndrewL]

Which loop is your delay in, and what else have you got in your stereo loops? What does (or might) your signal chain look like going to the preamp(s) and/or effects loop(s)? I assume you’re using either two separate amps (I.e., preamp + power amp in one box) or one amp (preamp + power amp) and an additional power amp to achieve stereo. Or are you doing something else?

Interesting puzzle. I like interesting puzzles.

 

[Derek McCarthy]

I have my stereo loops loaded up with some Strymon pedals and plan on adding a TC Mimiq as well. Delay is currently in loop 8. I don’t run a lot of pedals in loops 1-6 as I prefer amp distortion, but I do have a Micro POG, Big Muff and an overdrive pedal in loops 1-3 at the moment.

I have two amps, both have effects loops. These are the two setups I’ve been experimenting with:

Setup A (using preamps of both Amp A/B)

PBC Output A/B into the front inputs of each amp.

This setup is very straight forward. It gives me the blended tone of both amps, in stereo, with the delay before the preamp. It’s a little noisier running delay before the preamp but I love this sound for certain applications.


Setup B (using preamp of Amp A and power amp of both Amp A/B)

PBC Out 5-6 -> input of Amp A.
Effects loop send of Amp A -> PBC In 7-10
PBC Output A/B into effects loop returns of both amps

Keeps the stereo effects in the effects loop. Also gives me the tone of one preamp, but a blend of two power amps running different tubes (6L6 + EL34)


So these are the two setups I enjoy playing with. I’m just trying to find out the best way to swap between them with minimal effort. I’m pretty positive I can’t make the PBC do this and I’ll have to switch cables every time. I don’t need to switch between them mid-song, so as long as it’s a quick switch I could do it between songs… I’m just trying to figure out the best way to do this, wondering if I can wire up jacks on my pedalboard somehow to make this a more seamless process.

It’s holding me up from finishing off wiring my pedalboard so any input is appreciated!

And yes - I love puzzles too! But sometimes I need help with them.

Cheers.

 

[AndrewL]

I can’t see how you could do this just with the PBC, but I think it might be possible with a couple of A/B switchers, like Ron’s Y-Not and probably a mono sum cable.

Lemme think about this...

 

[AndrewL]

Ok, what about this for your setup B: instead of using the PBC out 5-6, use the send in loop 6 to go to the input of amp A and the amp A effects send to loop 6 return, essentially treating the preamp of amp A like another pedal. You ‘sacrifice’ loop 6 for pedals, but you say you’re not using a pedal in that loop anyway, so no worries there.

To achieve your setup A, you’ll need two A/B switchers, one each on the main PBC outputs A and B. You can switch the signals coming from PBC outs A&B between the main inputs of your two amps or the effects returns of the two amps. You’ll also need a third A/B switcher to control which signal is going to the input of your amp A, either coming from the PBC out (for your setup A) or from loop 6 (for your setup B). Or a mono sum cable might work in place of that third A/B box.

If you don’t need to change between your two setups mid-song, you could probably do this with standard A/B switches, but if you need to control this on a per preset basis, you would probably need midi- controllable switchers like the Y-Not or similar. Either way, you’d probably want quality A/B boxes that can isolate the signals; otherwise I can easily see horrible ground loop issues.

That’s what I could come up with, but I have no idea if it would actually work in real life. Free advice that may be worth what you paid for it

 

[Derek McCarthy]

Hey AndrewL, I just saw this now.. thanks very much for the input! Let me grab a coffee and read through your post. I'll do some reading on the Y-Not - if it's MIDI capable that could be very useful.

 

[Derek McCarthy]

I actually tried running preamps through the loops before. Someone else I was talking to does this. They run both preamps into loops, and they said it’s great because they can swap between preamps of either amp.

Something like this:

Loop1 send-> Amp A input
Amp A Effects Send -> Loop1 return

Loop2 send-> Amp B input
Amp B Effects Send -> Loop2 return

PBC Output A/B into effects loop returns of both amps

I tried this and it became confusing. When I disengage these loops I still had sound coming through the amp and it sounded bad. I’m wondering if that’s because it’s sending to the power amps without any preamp in the equation? Does that make sense?

In any case this won’t solve my problem though... but I thought it would be a neat way to do things.

The Y-Not doesn’t have midi-thru does it? It looks like it’s only Midi-In.

 

[AndrewL]

I actually tried running preamps through the loops before.
...

When I disengage these loops I still had sound coming through the amp and it sounded bad. I’m wondering if that’s because it’s sending to the power amps without any preamp in the equation? Does that make sense?
...

The Y-Not doesn’t have midi-thru does it? It looks like it’s only Midi-In.

With the noisy amp issue, did you mute the relevant PBC output going into the amp effects return? That might help prevent the noise you describe.

Y-Not is only midi in, but you could get a Midi Solutions Quadra Thru or a similar midi thru box, which is probably a good idea anyway if you’ve got a bunch of midi controlled pedals.