[Bug] Mastermind PBC erases saved changes on page

ZachSelindh

ZachSelindh

Well-Known Member
Hey all, I'm having a very strange bug with my PBC that I hope isn't memory related...

I control my Line6 HX One using buttons on Page 4. When I read/write the button settings from the Editor to the PBC, everything looks good in the Editor GUI. But when I power cycle my PBC, the Button group on Page 4 doesn't save which button was turned on. This has led to some embarrassing moments when I expect a patch to pull up a compressor and it stays on the fuzz I had previously selected.

Bizarrely, this only happens when I've programmed the Button state from the Editor. If I program the button state from the pedal itself, then read from the Editor, it works properly. But that's not ideal, obviously I want the Editor to always have the final word.

Any suggestions?

I've attached my settings file. To test this; check out the 2nd preset in the song, called "Edgy | Generic", located at Preset 731. You'll see that in the Editor, I'm trying to send the "Red Squeeze" preset from the button. But on my unit, when I write those settings, that button is off and doesn't send its messages. You also might need to power cycle the unit after writing the changes, which is part of why I'm worried it's a memory issue.
 

Attachments

  • new-framework.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 5
I loaded your settings up and tried the following:

- First, made sure that I have the Clean preset within the Deep Deep song selected
- Power down the PBC, then power it up
- Press the 2 button to select the Edgy preset
- I can see that the PBC sends a PC#1 on MIDI channel 3
- Hold the 3 button to go to page 4
- I can see that the 1 button ("Comp") is lit up in red

Does this not work for you?

I also tried editing the preset to change the Comp button to the next step (blue LED). I was able to transfer it to the PBC. After the transfer, the MIDI output and LED color were updated.
 
rjmmusic said:
Does this not work for you?
Click to expand...

The above procedure worked for me. Actually it helped me find the underlying problem, I think! Could relate to my typical workflow and how I use the "Write changes to device" process.

Follow these steps please:

1.) Write my settings to PBC
2.) Switch between 2 (Edgy) and 3 (ModClean) observing that both presets CORRECTLY send their IA button PCs.
3.) Select 3 Button (ModClean preset)
4.) From the Editor, select "Write changes to device"
5.) Power cycle PBC
6.) Switch to preset 2 and observe that Edgy now no longer has the previously saved button state on Page 4, and no longer sends the corresponding PC. However, the Editor still shows that button state as part of the preset (located at 731).

Is that replicable on your side?
 
Actually I just tried the following:

1.) Write settings to PBC
2.) Choose preset 3 (ModClean)
3.) Power cycle
4.) Select preset 2 (Edgy) and observe that Edgy does not have the saved value on Page 4.

So it does seem to be a larger problem, not change detection for the "Write changes" process and I started to suspect.

But why is it only affecting Page 4? Can't remember having the same problem with other pages.
 
ZachSelindh said:
Actually I just tried the following:

1.) Write settings to PBC
2.) Choose preset 3 (ModClean)
3.) Power cycle
4.) Select preset 2 (Edgy) and observe that Edgy does not have the saved value on Page 4.

So it does seem to be a larger problem, not change detection for the "Write changes" process and I started to suspect.

But why is it only affecting Page 4? Can't remember having the same problem with other pages.
Click to expand...
Was there any editor usage in this scenario?
 
Just wanted to bump to check; can anyone replicate this issue using my settings/steps? Would love to know if it's a problem with my settings file or my PBC.
 
The weird thing is that I saw the problem once, and every subsequent time I've tried, the problem didn't occur. Which is about the worst outcome, because it's not at all clear what's happening. I'll keep trying.
 
rjmmusic said:
The weird thing is that I saw the problem once, and every subsequent time I've tried, the problem didn't occur. Which is about the worst outcome, because it's not at all clear what's happening. I'll keep trying.
Click to expand...

I so appreciate that. I'm happy that you replicating the issue may indicate that my unit's memory isn't compromised.

One addendum if it hasn't come through; to replicate the issue, I'm starting fresh from the settings file I sent every time. If I save a preset's state on the PBC, it tends to correctly save Page 4's buttons, which will be reflected in "Read Presets..." and survive power cycles. The issue rears up when the only info regarding Page 4's button state has come from the Editor.
 
I have a strange update:

I have a gig this week that makes heavy use of my HX One (or at least tries to!) so I attempted a workaround for my Page 4 button state issue: I swapped page 4 with page 8, hoping to bypass any potential physical memory issues or latent button state bugs.

Unfortunately, I can report that the buttons behave the same! Same exact bug; buttons programmed from the Editor do not survive a power cycle, while buttons that have been saved on the PBC itself do survive indefinitely.

I'll include my new fix attempt's settings in case that aids in tracking down the issue.
 

Attachments

  • page-swap.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 1
I think I've fixed the issue. I moved my HX1 buttons from Button Group 1 to Button Group 6. That seemed to do the trick. Could be some bug around Button Group 1, or perhaps I have an errant button that's part of that button group that messes things up?
 
From a quick look, I see that you have a lot of buttons in group 1, it's definitely possible that you were getting unexpected results due to interactions between all those buttons.
 
rjmmusic said:
From a quick look, I see that you have a lot of buttons in group 1, it's definitely possible that you were getting unexpected results due to interactions between all those buttons.
Click to expand...

I see why you'd expect that, but I just doubled the number of buttons in the new Group 6 from 9 to 18 and that new configuration is working without any bugs.

The only other change I made was to move the button controlling bypass for the two HX One loops from one IA Cycle button to two seperate IA buttons, along with making the corresponding Set IA changes.
 
Update:

Well, the problem reared its head last night at a gig. My newly Group 6’d button page wasn’t sending any messages and not showing presets’ saved button states.

BUT I decided to power cycle my PBC just in case, and when it came back on, the buttons were all where they were saved and messages were sent as expected. The gig was saved.

So to summarize: the problem still exists, it still seems to be related to power cycles, but it’s less pervasive after I made button group assignment changes.
 
ZachSelindh said:
Update:

Well, the problem reared its head last night at a gig. My newly Group 6’d button page wasn’t sending any messages and not showing presets’ saved button states.

BUT I decided to power cycle my PBC just in case, and when it came back on, the buttons were all where they were saved and messages were sent as expected. The gig was saved.

So to summarize: the problem still exists, it still seems to be related to power cycles, but it’s less pervasive after I made button group assignment changes.
Click to expand...
Please send me the current settings file and I'll keep trying to reproduce the issue.
 
I've attached my file that gave me issues on Friday night.

But I'll point out that although the issue seemed related (same button/device page was affected), it resolved itself after a power cycle, and I've been unable to replicate it in my subsequent testing today.

HOWEVER, if I flash the file I provided in my initial post, I can still consistently recreate the button page bug. So if the problems are related, my earlier settings file seems to be a more reliable way of recreating the bug.
 

Attachments

  • less_frequent_issue.rjs
    1.7 MB · Views: 0
Alright, while troubleshooting this afternoon, I tried a Factory Reset. And... strangely enough, the issue seems to have been resolved. I can't recreate the problem, with either my previous "buggy" file or my most recent file with Group changes.

This is definitely good news for me, I obviously don't want to encounter this problem at gigs... I hope it also might help resolve this for anyone else who experiences it. But it certainly doesn't help me narrow down any possible issues in my files that could have caused it. Maybe it was a memory issue after all, that was thankfully wiped clean by the reset? I can only speculate.

EDIT: Nevermind, the issue is back. Same exact conditions. So frustrating.
 
Last edited:
Okay, I have another WEIRD update.

Here's what I did:

1.) Created a new .rjs Editor file with blank presets, and exported those presets.
2.) Opened my latest file, and imported those "empty/blank" presets.
3.) Created a song with a few new presets with various button states on Page 4. Send those to PBC.

At this point, everything is working, and all my new presets' button states are surviving power cycles. But...

4.) Exported/imported the presets from the file I've shared above, "new-framework" which is known by my device to contain replicable button state issues after a power cycle.
5.) Power cycle the PBC.

Now here's what's happening; my HX One is receiving nonsensical PC messages that don't seem to correspond to any button state anywhere. Primarily cycling between PC 19 and PC 20. But the button state is showing up correctly! And cycling the buttons works as expected, except that when I initially load a preset, it sends a PC that has nothing to do with the selected button.

Here's a few assumptions I'm making:

- This doesn't seem to be a physical memory issue. If it was, I'd expect the same buttons/groups to be having issues across multiple files/configs.
- This doesn't seem to be a problem with my PBC's onboard programming, since saving button state on the unit itself ALWAYS survives power cycles, and is read correctly by the Editor after calling "Read settings from device"
- Since brand-new/initialized presets don't seem to have this problem, the issue maybe be one of compatibility between presets that existed BEFORE I added my HX One button page, and presets that were created after.

A possible explainantion/hypothesis:

Some button state metadata exists in the Editor where it remembers the state of a given button page's buttons. I've seen examples of this when I've changed buttons on a given page (remove an IA cycle, but see the button still show up saved as "Step 4" even though that step no longer exists). This metadata existed, unseen, on the page I created for my HX One's buttons. That hidden button state now overrides/interferes what I program in the Editor, though what I program on the device itself will become reliable (not sure how this works, maybe the unit itself is a primary source of truth for button state and the Editor is fallback).

Is this making any sense? At this point I'm tempted to redo my presets with a more recent revision of my button pages just to avoid this problem.
 
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