Effect Gizmo + Mini Line Mixer

cscotto

Member
In my rack, I have a G-Major 2 plus a lexicon MX200. I want to use a mini line mixer so the output of the MX200 is not processed by the G Major 2. I have the diagram illustrating this setup, and I understand how it works. However, I want to do something slightly different. In the wiring diagram, both processors are set to 100% wet, and the dry signal is carried from the Effect Gizmo output to the dry input of the mini line mixer. The effects in the G Major 2 do not sound as good using the killdry feature. Therefore, I want to use the mini line mixer to combine the outputs of the effects processors (which is simple to do), but I also want to have available an unprocessed signal when I do not want to use the processors. To make the problem more interesting, I want to do it with as few loops as possible. I have uploaded two jpegs with two possible ways of implementing the setup.
Fig. 1 uses three loops and, I think, does everything I want. This is one more loop than I would like to use since I want to save two loops for amp switching. With the figure 1 setup, I can have either effect processor on, both on, or both off and the dry signal out of loop 11. I believe I will always have to have loop 11 on to hear anything. The one question I have about this setup is signal integrity. For example, with loop 9 on, my signal will flow to the MX200 and into the line mixer and power amp. However, since the jacks are normalled and I do not have anything plugged into the return jack of loop 9, part of the signal will be sent to the output jack of loop 9. I know as long as I have loops 10 and 11 off, no signal will be sent to the send jacks of those loops. My question is do normalled jacks split the signal like a voltage divider or is the full strength of the signal sent to both jacks. In other words, will the signal integrity suffer in this setup.
Fig. 2 uses two loops and ground tip plugs to break the normalled connection. If I am understanding the operation of the Effects Gizmo correctly, then the Fig. 2 setup would only allow three options: MXR on/off, G Major 2 on/off, and dry signal on/off. For example, the grounding plug in loop 9 will prevent using the MX200 and G Major simultaneously. Would I get what I want by removing the ground plug from loop 9? This seems like the best option. With the ground plug removed from loop 9, I could use one effect processor, both effects processors, or just the dry signal. Again, will using the normalled feature of the jack this way degrade the signal?

I know this is long and twisty, so I thank you ahead of time. I just want to do this in the best way possible.
Fig1.jpg

Fig2.jpg


Ciro
 
No diagrams were attached! Please try again?

To answer your question - as long as your signal is buffered, splitting it won't cause any signal degradation.
 
What Ron said - option 2 should work fine. You only really need to worry about signal loss when splitting audio paths when you're talking about instrument level signal (ie before the amp). The signal from a preamp is plenty strong enough to cope with being split a couple of times without tone loss.

Does your Recto Pre have two outputs? I had a feeling they did. If so (or you could use a Y cable from the preamp output), connect it directly to both loops 9 (MX200) and 10 (G Major II). Then you could connect the MX200, G Major II and the loop 9 output to your Mini Line Mixer. Just a thought, might be worth a try to see what tonal options this gives.

BTW, not sure I agree that the G Major II sounds best with Kill Dry turned off - I've tried both, and I find I can still hear tone suck-age when running it in series. Not a lot, but it's there. YMMV.
 
Hi Martin,

Thanks for your reply. I should have been more precise with terms. I am not worried about tone degradation or tone loss. That is why I bought the effect Gizmo. When I want the best signal and I do not need effects, I let the Effects Gizmo take the processors out of the signal chain. I was worried about signal level. A unique feature of the Recto Preamp is that when the outputs of the Recto Pre are inserted into a special pair of input jacks on the 2:100 power amp, The pair behave exactly the same a dual recto head. That is, the overall level of the power amp is controlled by the output pot on the Recto Pre. In fact, the level controls on the power amp become inactive. Therefore, anything that would cause signal loss would change the overall volume. What I was really worried about with the normalled jacks is, for exmple, if a 3 volt signal goes into the input, and nothing plugged into the return jack, does the signal get split 1.5 volts to the send jack and 1.5 volts to the output jack, or do both jacks get the full 3 volts?

If the signal level is maintained then, I think my Fig 2 WITH the ground plug removed on loop 9 will give me what I want. Yes, No?

All the best,

And thanks in advance.

Ciro
 
The second diagram with the plug removed from return 9 would allow you to have the following options:

Dry
MX-200
MX-200 plus dry signal
G-Major
MX-200 plus G-Major

When a loop as used as a splitter (nothing in the return jack), the connection is effectively parallel, so the voltage remains the same - there is no voltage division going on.
 
rjmmusic said:
The second diagram with the plug removed from return 9 would allow you to have the following options:

Dry
MX-200
MX-200 plus dry signal
G-Major
MX-200 plus G-Major

When a loop as used as a splitter (nothing in the return jack), the connection is effectively parallel, so the voltage remains the same - there is no voltage division going on.

Thank you so much, Ron. Those are exactly the combiations I am looking for, and with the signal split being parallel, everything will be fine.

Thanks again.

Ciro
 
cscotto said:
Hi Martin,

Thanks for your reply. I should have been more precise with terms. I am not worried about tone degradation or tone loss. That is why I bought the effect Gizmo. When I want the best signal and I do not need effects, I let the Effects Gizmo take the processors out of the signal chain. I was worried about signal level. A unique feature of the Recto Preamp is that when the outputs of the Recto Pre are inserted into a special pair of input jacks on the 2:100 power amp, The pair behave exactly the same a dual recto head. That is, the overall level of the power amp is controlled by the output pot on the Recto Pre. In fact, the level controls on the power amp become inactive. Therefore, anything that would cause signal loss would change the overall volume. What I was really worried about with the normalled jacks is, for exmple, if a 3 volt signal goes into the input, and nothing plugged into the return jack, does the signal get split 1.5 volts to the send jack and 1.5 volts to the output jack, or do both jacks get the full 3 volts?

If the signal level is maintained then, I think my Fig 2 WITH the ground plug removed on loop 9 will give me what I want. Yes, No?

All the best,

And thanks in advance.

Ciro

Hi Martin,
I forgot to add that I agree that G Major 2 colors the tone, even if it is a little bit. Far more problematic for me is that I don't think the effects sound as 3D or lush when using the Killdry feature. I don't know if TC builds the algorithms around having a percentage of dry signal, but when the Killdry feature is engaged, the effects seem to loose something. This is what is behind the setup I am proposing. I want the G Major 2 and MX 200 to be parallel while both still maintain the internal Dry/Wet processing. Thanks for the help.

Ciro
 
I added the mini line mixer to my rack, and I could not be happier. The effects never sounded better, and I love all the switching option I have. The mini line mixer is sonically very transparent. All the effect come through crystal clear and parallel mixing the processors gives the effects great depth.

Here are a couple of pictures:

CIMG0037.jpg


CIMG0039.jpg
 
rjmmusic said:
The second diagram with the plug removed from return 9 would allow you to have the following options:

Dry
MX-200
MX-200 plus dry signal
G-Major
MX-200 plus G-Major

When a loop as used as a splitter (nothing in the return jack), the connection is effectively parallel, so the voltage remains the same - there is no voltage division going on.

Hi,
I spent some more time with the rack trying all the combinations, and getting one combination, MX-200 (without dry signal), seems to not be possible. Again, I am using Fig. 2 with the plug removed from the return of loop 9. Here are loop states corresponding to each combination:

Dry-loops 9 and 10/off
MX-200-?
MX-200 plus dry signal-loop 9/on (loop 10/off)
G-Major-loop 10/on (loop 9/off)
MX-200 plus G-Major-loops 9 and 10/on

From a Boolean perspective, 2 buttons equal four states, so the fifth state of MX-200 is not possible. I am just verifying that I am correct, and there isn't some secret combination I am unaware of.
 
No, I can't see a way of doing that just using the two loops either. There's only 00, 0x, x0 and xx. It's a workaround, but you could create a G Major patch that is silent (set the output to -96dB or whatever) if you wanted just MX-200.
 
MartinCliffe said:
No, I can't see a way of doing that just using the two loops either. There's only 00, 0x, x0 and xx. It's a workaround, but you could create a G Major patch that is silent (set the output to -96dB or whatever) if you wanted just MX-200.

Hi Martin,
That is an excellent idea. Your idea pointed the way to an easier solution. If I want the MX-200 alone, I will have the Mastermind send a midi cc to engage the tuner mute function on the G-major. With both loops on, the dry will be muted by the plug in loop 10, and the audio from the G-major will be muted by the tuner mute function. Thanks for the idea! I will get it set up and report back.

Edit: In the Mastermind set up cc 81 to an on message with a preset that also turns loops 9 and 10. Result: MX200 on, G Major in tuner mute mode, so all you hear is the MX200. I think this is a good work around since I get all the combinations I want using only two loops.
 
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