I'm dealing with an issue trying to get two external switches to do exactly what I want them to do. I will gladly post all of the gory details as the thread grows, but, for now, I have one simple question that might help me trouble shoot some on my own first. If you program the switches when the PBC/10 is in Preset mode, should the switches do anything different if you switch to Loop mode?
Issue(s) Programming External Switches
- Thread starter jcshirke
- Start date
Okay, they are not set to global. I am programming them on a per-preset basis. I was under the impression that when I switched to Loop mode that I was still in the preset--so to speak. I obviously need to keep reading the manual. But I'm not sure what in the world the external switches would be sending, since I haven't programmed them to do anything other than send two CC messages in IA Cycle mode inside preset 13.
Is there anyone here who is using their RJM controllers with KHE audio amp/cab switchers?
More details coming soon about what I'm trying to do.
Is there anyone here who is using their RJM controllers with KHE audio amp/cab switchers?
More details coming soon about what I'm trying to do.
I have two KHE amp/cab switchers that are joined together in link mode. That means they operate as one big unit instead of as two independent ones. I have a KHE 4x4 FX and a KHE 8x4. Together, they form a 12x8 FX. Even though they each have separate MIDI channels, you can send MIDI to the main unit (on Ch 1), and the MIDI events are processed by both units. The units have 100 presets, which are way more than enough for my needs, and they respond to PC and CC messages. I programmed 13 presets in the KHE units to cover my basic amp/cab needs. PC 1 turns on amp 1 (a combo). PC 2 turns on a different combo amp--etc. I have three amp heads in the mix and two cabs. So, some of the presets I programmed will turn on amp head A with cab A. Another preset will turn on amp head A with cab B--and so on. The CC layout is fairly straightforward, although it gets a little funky when two units are linked together. CC messages can turn any amp or cab on/off as well. All of that is just background for what follows.
I want to use the PBC external switches to send CC messages to switch between cabs and/or switch between amps *after* I have already loaded a PBC preset. So, for example, in PBC preset 13, I send PC 9 to the KHE switchers. That switches on my Metropoulos Super Plex MK II head + Cab A. I have also programmed one of my external switches in IA Cycle mode to send CC messages to the KHE to switch between Cab B and then back to Cab A again. This allows me to play through an amp head and toggle between different cabs. Similarly, on the other external switch, I have programmed it to switch between different amps. Pressing the switch sends a CC message that turns on my Germino head. Pressing that switch again brings me back to my Super Plex. Between the two switches, I can toggle between two amp heads and two cabs.
Here's the thing. It works, but it shouldn't. Putting it differently, I don't see why it works the way I've programmed it. I would much rather understand exactly what's going on because that's going to serve me better in the long term with my programming.
CC 8 corresponds to Cab 1 (on my 4 x 4 FX)
CC 9 corresponds to Cab 2 (on my 4 x 4 FX)
CC 12 corresponds to Amp 1 (on my 8 x 4)
CC 14 corresponds to Amp 3 (on my 8 x 4)
Here's a screen shot of what's programmed for the first switch, which should toggle between cabs:
The KHE manual states that it only responds to a value of 127, which is why I put in 127 for both on and off states. Basically, I didn't know what I was doing exactly, so I just experimented until things worked. *But here's the part I don't understand.* Shouldn't I be sending CC 9 first in the cycle steps because Cab 1 is already on when the preset loads? CC 9 should turn on Cab 2, but it only works when I program it this way. Is there any way that the first press of my ext switch *is* sending the second command (CC 9) because its default state (sending CC 8) is already on, so the next press will send step two (CC 9)??
Here's the thing, though. When I press the second switch--the one that will toggle between my two amp heads--it works exactly as I'd expect it to work. Here's what I've programmed:
Here, when I press the switch, CC 12 must be being sent because my Germino comes on (CC 12, Amp 1). And when I press the switch the second time, I go right back to my Super Plex (CC 14, Amp 3). It's exactly the opposite of what happens with the cabs.
On the one hand, I'm thrilled that it works. I can switch between two amp heads and two cabs just by tapping two switches. It's totally bad ass. But I'm also completely baffled b/c I want to know what's going on with the programming.
If you've read all this, I owe you a beer.
I want to use the PBC external switches to send CC messages to switch between cabs and/or switch between amps *after* I have already loaded a PBC preset. So, for example, in PBC preset 13, I send PC 9 to the KHE switchers. That switches on my Metropoulos Super Plex MK II head + Cab A. I have also programmed one of my external switches in IA Cycle mode to send CC messages to the KHE to switch between Cab B and then back to Cab A again. This allows me to play through an amp head and toggle between different cabs. Similarly, on the other external switch, I have programmed it to switch between different amps. Pressing the switch sends a CC message that turns on my Germino head. Pressing that switch again brings me back to my Super Plex. Between the two switches, I can toggle between two amp heads and two cabs.
Here's the thing. It works, but it shouldn't. Putting it differently, I don't see why it works the way I've programmed it. I would much rather understand exactly what's going on because that's going to serve me better in the long term with my programming.
CC 8 corresponds to Cab 1 (on my 4 x 4 FX)
CC 9 corresponds to Cab 2 (on my 4 x 4 FX)
CC 12 corresponds to Amp 1 (on my 8 x 4)
CC 14 corresponds to Amp 3 (on my 8 x 4)
Here's a screen shot of what's programmed for the first switch, which should toggle between cabs:
The KHE manual states that it only responds to a value of 127, which is why I put in 127 for both on and off states. Basically, I didn't know what I was doing exactly, so I just experimented until things worked. *But here's the part I don't understand.* Shouldn't I be sending CC 9 first in the cycle steps because Cab 1 is already on when the preset loads? CC 9 should turn on Cab 2, but it only works when I program it this way. Is there any way that the first press of my ext switch *is* sending the second command (CC 9) because its default state (sending CC 8) is already on, so the next press will send step two (CC 9)??
Here's the thing, though. When I press the second switch--the one that will toggle between my two amp heads--it works exactly as I'd expect it to work. Here's what I've programmed:
Here, when I press the switch, CC 12 must be being sent because my Germino comes on (CC 12, Amp 1). And when I press the switch the second time, I go right back to my Super Plex (CC 14, Amp 3). It's exactly the opposite of what happens with the cabs.
On the one hand, I'm thrilled that it works. I can switch between two amp heads and two cabs just by tapping two switches. It's totally bad ass. But I'm also completely baffled b/c I want to know what's going on with the programming.
If you've read all this, I owe you a beer.
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Cycle buttons start at the first step when you power up the unit. So, the first time you press it, it switches to the second step and sends its message(s). So, that's why the first case you mention works.
For the second case, it's possible that you saved the state of the button as step 2, either intentionally or unintentionally. If you do that, then the first press will bring you to step 1. Any IA button that has Update on Preset Change turned on can be set to any state or step for each preset. So, selecting preset 1 could make the button automatically switch to step 2, selecting preset 3 could make the button switch to step 1, etc.
You can check this by going into the Presets tab, then watching the external switches in the window that shows the PBC. As you switch presets, the switches might switch from step 1 to step 2 or vice versa. This is probably the cause of what you're seeing.
For the second case, it's possible that you saved the state of the button as step 2, either intentionally or unintentionally. If you do that, then the first press will bring you to step 1. Any IA button that has Update on Preset Change turned on can be set to any state or step for each preset. So, selecting preset 1 could make the button automatically switch to step 2, selecting preset 3 could make the button switch to step 1, etc.
You can check this by going into the Presets tab, then watching the external switches in the window that shows the PBC. As you switch presets, the switches might switch from step 1 to step 2 or vice versa. This is probably the cause of what you're seeing.
I'm making my way through the "Mastering the Mastermind" videos, but I haven't gotten to the video that will address this question yet, so I thought I'd continue the thread here. On the presets page, I see the two external switches. Clicking on each one toggles between step 1 and step 2, which is something I just noticed. If I choose step 1, is that it's default state, which would mean that pressing the switch would execute step 2, or does it mean that the first time I press the switch, it will execute step 1? Also, I think the red LED stays on no matter which step of the cycle I'm in. I was looking for a place to change its on/off status, but didn't see it. I see a place to change its color (I realize I can't actually do that with an external switch, however), but not a place to choose whether it's on for step 1, off for step 2, etc.
IA Cycle buttons can have up to 4 steps, and it's important to note there's no extra "off" step. So it's always in one of 4 steps, and by default it starts on step 1. So, you're correct in saying that the first press brings you to step 2.
Have a look at the step colors for those switches. The LEDs on external switches can only be on or off, but the editor has the same color selections for every button. The way it works with external switches is: if the switch color is set to black, the LED is off. If it's set to any other color, the LED is off. So, just go in there and adjust your colors and you can get it to turn on and off as desired.
Have a look at the step colors for those switches. The LEDs on external switches can only be on or off, but the editor has the same color selections for every button. The way it works with external switches is: if the switch color is set to black, the LED is off. If it's set to any other color, the LED is off. So, just go in there and adjust your colors and you can get it to turn on and off as desired.
Okay, but I could have it begin with step 1 *if* I changed the setting in the diagram above to "Step 2"--which would mean that the next press would change it to step 1, right? I think that may be what happened in my first example (amp switching) at the beginning of this thread.
That's what I thought, but for some reason the LED stays on with every press. I'll be messing around with it shortly, so hopefully I can get it figured out. Thanks!
Yes, if Update on Preset Change is turned on, you can set which step the button starts on for every preset. You can set it to step 2 for one or more presets, then the first press will go to step 1.
When messing with external switch colors, make sure that you do it in the part of the screen where you specify colors for each individual step.
When messing with external switch colors, make sure that you do it in the part of the screen where you specify colors for each individual step.