Newbie w/ a few Q's: chase bliss

1

12guitdown

Active Member
hi all. After a fair amount of reading and YouTube vids I'm about ready to buy a PBC but still have a few questions on "how to…".

Rig rundown: I'll be running mono with 10 effects. pedal order is:

Cali76
Micro POG
Brothers
Barber LTDsr
Warped vinyl
Lehle VP
Gravitas
Tonal Recall
Time line
Big Sky

Id like to control via midi the Strymons and CBAs.
So question 1. Will I need an outboard box to interface with the chase bliss boxes? Like something from Disaster Area?
Q2. I use two "faves" on the Tonal and Warped. Will I be able to ditch those while still having access to the 6 presets within those pedals?

I'm having a new board being built at the moment and already have purchased cables, power supply, cords etc. and would like to have everything needed in hand to assemble in about three weeks. I've a basic understanding of midi so there'll be more questions for sure.

Thx in advance for any advice!
Gary
 
Hey Gary,

Q1: Yes, you'll need an external box. I have the Disaster Area midi box and it works like a charm.
Q2: Yes, you can access all your current presets on the CB devices through the midi box. They are stored from preset 1 onwards, preset 0 is the live mode on the devices (when you put your switch to the middle position).

Ask away if you have any midi related questions.
 
Thx so much Ralf. Just ordered the midibox with the trs' needed. I'll be able to fit it under the board too. Being able to ditch the two faves switches will buy me some Realestate so maybe add another dirt box? I'm sure I'll think of something.
Anyway, I do have another Q.
On a CBA pedal Will I be able to write and save, say a new preset 5 or 6 via the pbc? In other words let's say I want to change preset 4 on the tonal recall and change from a 1/4 to a dotted 8th and lengthen the delay time and lower the mix etc. How do I save those changes?
Will I still need a faves switch?
 
Gary, you won't need the faves anymore. There are several ways to accomplish your example:

1) You press both buttons on the CBA and send a program change with the desired CBA preset no. from the PBC to the CBA. Done.

Simple changes like more mix, different delay subdivisions etc. can be made to an existing CBA preset though w/o saving a new preset on the CBA. The PBC can modify the existing preset on the CBA by sending midi CC values to the CBA. Two ways to do that on the PBC:

2) select a preset on the PBC and send the PC of that preset you want to modify to the CBA. Go to the Preset Actions section in the editor and put the CC values of the parameters you want to change on the CBA in. These CCs are already set up on the PBC for most of the CBAs so you don't have to go to the midi manual. (Thanks Ron !)

3) create a dedicated CC button page on the PBC for the CBA pedal you want to modify. Set up all the values you want to modify on that page, store it with your preset on the PBC and boom! Every time you recall that preset on the PBC your CBA gets all the modifiers as well (as long as "send on preset change" is set on the button page)
 
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I'm still having a few issues here. Ok so I have everything hooked up and channels are correct. I run a >brothers, gravitas, WVII, and tonal red knob. The WV and Tonal are in loops 7 & 8 and when I run them in parallel the dry signal is nearly gone, almost non existent. When run in series they operate normal. I'd like to have those two though in parallel. Probably something in the setup menu needs to change.

Also, the tempos and other controls respond sluggish, like I only have partial control of them. Example: When turning the volume on the WV its really fat sounding from 7-10, then really thins out the sound in the middle position, then gets really loud toward the latter part of the knob.
Only the brothers seems to operate normally.

With that said, loops 9&10 have a timeline and big sky and they work exactly like they should in parallel. A nice separation between signal and effect with better clarity overall. I think I can assume the CBA's should work the same.

I still have yet to set up the software but will do that later on today.

On another note about saving CBA presets; I'm not quite getting that either. So I go to "edit presets", find the preset I want to edit and enter that preset. Scroll down to say, "warped vinyl", click on that and set the preset number ,(1-122 I assume), then I make changes on the pedal itself and save it right? Well, I can't seem to save it, so I need that explained or how it all works. And the controls on the CBA's just seem funky to me as mentioned above.

Thx for any help!

Gary
 
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I'm guessing that the outputs of the WV and Tonal are out of phase with the inputs. It might not be possible to run them in parallel. Do you have them set to 100% wet? That should help.

I'm not sure about the volume issues, does that only happen when in parallel? It may be an impedance issue.

Saving a preset should work the way you described, specifically in the order you mentioned. When you hold both buttons on the Chase Bliss to save, does it respond at all? And, can you get the pedal to respond to MIDI messages at all?
 
To save I can only press one button down, on the CBA, wait three seconds and press the other. Nothing seems to happen when I hold both simultaneously.

With the mix 100% I only get 100% wet in parallel mode. As I back off the the mix it gets funky sounding with the dry signal way off in the distance.

The volume issue on the WV only happens in parallel mode.

It does respond to midi messages, I'm just having a hard time getting them to sound good. The Brothers seem to be ok tho.
 
100% wet is exactly what you want. When running parallel, each pedal should only pass wet signal, the PBC is responsible for the dry signal. Now turn on the dry signal in the PBC's mixer. On the Switches page, press the Switches button, or lock dry signal to the On state in Audio settings.

I have a feeling that the Chase Bliss pedals can't tolerate the low input impedance of the line mixer (50k). You probably won't be able to use them in parallel.
 
Yeah I'm still fighting it, CBA that is. Even running them in series. I think I have a problem getting the channels right. It's like how do I know that a CBA pedalis operating on channel 2? How can I test this to first make sure it's communicating correctly? Ive read the way to do it on the CBA instruction card but it seems I don't understand how to send a cc message to that particular pedal to get it to accept that particular channel.
I'm just kinda frustrated after spending like ten hours with it yesterday.
 
I recommend setting up Device PC+ and Device PC- buttons for each Chase Bliss pedal. Those buttons only send a PC message to one device, so there's no danger of sending multiple PCs which would screw up the Chase Bliss channel assignment process.
 
In the midi guide for each pedal it states what midi channel the pedal defaults to:

Warped Vinyl: Ch5
Brothers: Ch2
Tonal Recall: Ch2
Gravitas: Ch4

So it seems like you'll need to perform the midi channel assignment for either the Brothers or the TR to make one of them channel 3.

You should be able to do that by setting up the PC+/- buttons and only adding one of the two pedals as a midi device in the PBC Editor with the correct midi channel assigned to it.
 
Ok so I went to the editor with the unit plugged into the computer. It says the midi channels are different but went ahead anyways and reassigned the brothers to channel 16 and wrote it to the rjm. Will that change the channel on the CBA or not? How do you set up PC+\-? I checked out the manual but didn’t find it.
 
In PBC editor, edit a button and set its type to Device PC -. Under that, set Device to Brothers. Edit another and do the same for Device PC +.

Now, power up the Chase Bliss while holding the two buttons on it. Then, press one of the Device PC - or Device PC+ buttons you just created - press one of those only! That will send a PC message on channel 16 to the Chase Bliss, making it switch to channel 16.
 
Yup they function fine now. Also I can save presets but it’s kind of weird. There’s a couple other issues too but I’ll start with the first.

I enter setup mode and go to edit presets, scroll down to the device, in this case the brothers, find the preset number I want, then create the sound I like etc. When I go to save it I hold down both buttons, then I have to either scroll up or scroll down one preset on the pbc for it to save. So in other words, if I want to create and save a preset to preset 5 on the brothers I either have to create that preset on channel 4 or 6 first, then save it to channel 5 by moving the preset number up or down respectively. If that’s the way it works that’s fine but if there’s another option?

Second thing. When entering set up mode and editing a preset how do I get it so I can actually hear and play the preset I want to edit? What I am hearing when entering set up is either preset 1 or 3. That’s because I have to hold down preset 1 and 3 to enter in and which ever one of those I hit first, it’ll stay on that preset. Is ther a way to change the preset I hear once I’m in set up mode? Sorry if I’m being redundant here.

Ok third thing. When editing a preset the mute button (8) doesn’t do anything even though it’s lit up red. Isn’t it supposed to mute? Just curious on that.

Thanks again for all the help!

Gary
 
There's a setting in the editor in the Devices tab - select the Brothers device, and turn on the "Send Redundant PCs" checkbox.

If you set up the Device PC - and Device PC + buttons, you can use those buttons to select presets on the Brothers without entering setup mode in the PBC.

If the Mute button isn't doing anything, check your button settings, it should have a System / Tuner action set on it.
 
Ok I'll try those. I think I'll need to ultimately set up a button page for the cba's.

The mute/tuner works as it should when not in set up mode.

This is all still pretty new to me but I'm starting to get it. Appreciate all the help here.
 
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