PBC Advice for Wet/Dry/Wet with Ambikab Jr.

[Gordon]

I've had my eye on a Komet Ambikab Jr. (basically a powered stereo wet cab) for a while now, and thinking through a potential wet/dry/wet rig with my PBC before I pull the trigger. Seems like there are some limitations though, and I'd welcome any input. My current signal path is:

Guitar -> Fuzz -> Wah -> PBC
L1: envelope filter
L2: comp (Jackson Audio Bloom -- boost/eq controlled via midi)
L3: OD
L4: OD
Out 1-4 -> volume pedal -> In 5-6
L5: univibe
L6: rotary (Strymon Lex)
Out 5-6: amp input
In 7-10: FX Send
L7: tremolo (mono)
L8: delay (Strymon Timeline)
L9: reverb (TBD)
L10: looper (Pigtronix Infinity Looper - stereo capable)
Output A/Left: FX Return
Output B/Right: amp 2 (wired to junction box on pedalboard for input but not currently used)

I'm just not sure wet/dry/wet makes sense with this setup. Following the PBC wiring diagram, it looks like I have to send all 4 loops from 7-10 to the Ambikab, which is wet only and doesn't see any dry signal by my understanding. Ideally, however, I only want to send delay and reverb, and run them in parallel. It might be cool to swap tremolo and rotary to take advantage of the Lex's stereo capabilities in L7, but I would miss out on having the dry signal running into it, which I would definitely miss. Then there's the looper, and I have no idea how I would ever be able to loop both the wet and dry paths via L10. The looper really belongs in a loop too because when I'm not using it I want it completely out of the chain.

So, is there a way to only send loops 8/9 to the Ambikab, and still be able to loop both wet and dry signals, or have I found the ONE use case for which the PBC isn't best-suited? Thanks!

 

[rjmmusic]

I'm sorry, you can't split up loops 7-10 in any way. Any effects that you don't want to be in the wet path will have to be moved out of those loops. For example, the looper would be best positioned between Out 5-6 and the amp input. Otherwise, you will only be looping your wet effects and not the dry.

 

[Gordon]

That's what I suspected. I'm thinking through solutions, and I'm considering an additional MIDI/stereo delay + reverb pedal that would sit outside the PBC loops and run 100% wet directly to the Ambikab. That way, I can still control it via MIDI with the PBC, and I'll keep my existing signal chain for the dry path (although I'll likely have to swap out my Timeline in the dry path for something with a smaller footprint to make room). I just need to make sure the wet delay/reverb pedal runs the effects in parallel...

 

[REFAGAEM]

That's what i did, with an HX Stomp, that i'm using after PBC Output B, Output A goes to Victory amp return.

I create a path in HX with an amp/cab block, a split block path A to reverb 100% wet, path B to delay in parallel 100% wet, a mixer block and go to output in stereo on a mixing desk or stereo amp or whatever..

 

[Gordon]

Sounds like a killer setup! Right now I'm leaning towards a SA Collider for parallel reverb/delay to run 100% wet stereo through the Ambikab, which has its own internal mixer. I'm thinking I will control the Collider via MIDI through the PBC, but otherwise completely independent of the dry signal path. I have a GigRig MIDI Cincocinco junction box, so in this scenario I will run everything in the PBC in front of the amp via the first two junction inputs (removing reverb/swapping Timeline for small analog delay so no need for effects loop). The remaining 3 inputs will connect the AK effects send line out to the Collider Input 1, and the Collider Outputs 1 and 2 back to the AK effects inputs left and right.

I think this makes sense. I'm new to the whole wet/dry/wet game so let me know if there's anything else I should be considering.

 

[REFAGAEM]

It seems fine! i don't know this Ambikab amp specifically, but i 'd rather prefer to be cool with my old back.

I made the choice to send the Wet LR signal (HX Stomp) direct to the mixing desk, with an expression pedal to control volume of wet signal in my ear monitors.

Black cable brings loops 1 to 5 to the input of the Victory, White cable is the send Amp and comes back to feed loops 6 to 10, loop 8 (JHS Analog Delay mix 100% wet) is in parallel, Red cable comes back to the return of the Amp.

Victory speaker output is routed to a Captor X and goes to Mixing desk.

So our Soundman can make some adjustements with the rest of the band and i can keep the Amp sound near me..

that's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[rjmmusic]

I'm happy to hear it's working!

 

[REFAGAEM]

Merry Christmas fronm France Ron! and many thanks fou your smart products..

 

[JamesCardoza]

just now discovering this threat and I have some questions:

I'm running a similar wet dry wet rig with my amp setup utilizing the following:

guitar > Patch bay > PBC Input

Loop 1 Jackson Audio Compressor
Loop 2 Jackson Audio Prism boost
Loop 3 King of Tone
Loop 4 Klon KTR
Loop 5 Mosstortion
Loop 6 Walrus Julia chorus/vibrato

after loop 6 it goes into the input of my amp, either a matchless clubman or a mesa boogie mark 5. The amp is connected to a two notes Captor X with the Left side running to FOH or DAW, and the Right side running to the pedalboard input for loop 7 - 10.

Loop 7 Meris Hedra
Loop 8 Strymon Volante
Loop 9 Strymon Night Sky
Loop 10 Meris Mercury 7
___________________________________________________

Here are the issues I'm having with the set up as it is now:

1) I get an increased noise floor, buzz, interference when running loops 1-6 in front of the amp and then running the amp back to loop 7-10. This happens whether or not there are any pedals or loops turned on in the PBC
2) There is a very light, fast, ticking sound. I've had this problem for a long time and haven't been able to isolate the problem yet. I've looked into possible active sensing, but am still unsure.
3) regarding noise/buzz when combining loops 1-6 in front of amp and loops 7-10 post amp, this noise is nowhere to be found when connecting directly to the amp and bypassing the split input/out scenario, as well as if I just run all pedals in front of the amp, there is no additional noise or buzz.

Is this type of rig just not feasible with the PBC without types of noise problems?

 

[rjmmusic]

Hum problems are due to ground loops and are common. The more splits and connections to and from amps, the more likely it is. Using an isolation transformer or ground lifted cable or more than one) is the fix. Try this: move your connection from Out A to Out B on the PBC (if it isn't already there), make sure that the Iso B and Mono Output switches are pushed in. In your PBC settings, make sure Out B is turned on. This might do it. If it doesn't you will need other isolation transformers, perhaps one on the connection leading to the In 7-10.

Ticking could be MIDI noise. Are you using MIDI clock? If any cable is poorly shielded, that would let MIDI noise seep out. I seem to remember hearing of instances where some pedals don't do a great job keeping MIDI noise out of the audio signal. Do you hear the noise when all loops are turned off? If so, start unplugging MIDI cables, starting at the input of each pedal and see if the noise stops at some point. That will identify the pedal, or the cable, that's radiating noise.

 

[Nico]

I've had my eye on a Komet Ambikab Jr. (basically a powered stereo wet cab) for a while now, and thinking through a potential wet/dry/wet rig with my PBC before I pull the trigger. Seems like there are some limitations though, and I'd welcome any input. My current signal path is:

Guitar -> Fuzz -> Wah -> PBC
L1: envelope filter
L2: comp (Jackson Audio Bloom -- boost/eq controlled via midi)
L3: OD
L4: OD
Out 1-4 -> volume pedal -> In 5-6
L5: univibe
L6: rotary (Strymon Lex)
Out 5-6: amp input
In 7-10: FX Send
L7: tremolo (mono)
L8: delay (Strymon Timeline)
L9: reverb (TBD)
L10: looper (Pigtronix Infinity Looper - stereo capable)
Output A/Left: FX Return
Output B/Right: amp 2 (wired to junction box on pedalboard for input but not currently used)

I'm just not sure wet/dry/wet makes sense with this setup. Following the PBC wiring diagram, it looks like I have to send all 4 loops from 7-10 to the Ambikab, which is wet only and doesn't see any dry signal by my understanding. Ideally, however, I only want to send delay and reverb, and run them in parallel. It might be cool to swap tremolo and rotary to take advantage of the Lex's stereo capabilities in L7, but I would miss out on having the dry signal running into it, which I would definitely miss. Then there's the looper, and I have no idea how I would ever be able to loop both the wet and dry paths via L10. The looper really belongs in a loop too because when I'm not using it I want it completely out of the chain.

So, is there a way to only send loops 8/9 to the Ambikab, and still be able to loop both wet and dry signals, or have I found the ONE use case for which the PBC isn't best-suited? Thanks!

just now discovering this threat and I have some questions:

I'm running a similar wet dry wet rig with my amp setup utilizing the following:

guitar > Patch bay > PBC Input

Loop 1 Jackson Audio Compressor
Loop 2 Jackson Audio Prism boost
Loop 3 King of Tone
Loop 4 Klon KTR
Loop 5 Mosstortion
Loop 6 Walrus Julia chorus/vibrato

after loop 6 it goes into the input of my amp, either a matchless clubman or a mesa boogie mark 5. The amp is connected to a two notes Captor X with the Left side running to FOH or DAW, and the Right side running to the pedalboard input for loop 7 - 10.

Loop 7 Meris Hedra
Loop 8 Strymon Volante
Loop 9 Strymon Night Sky
Loop 10 Meris Mercury 7
___________________________________________________

Here are the issues I'm having with the set up as it is now:

1) I get an increased noise floor, buzz, interference when running loops 1-6 in front of the amp and then running the amp back to loop 7-10. This happens whether or not there are any pedals or loops turned on in the PBC
2) There is a very light, fast, ticking sound. I've had this problem for a long time and haven't been able to isolate the problem yet. I've looked into possible active sensing, but am still unsure.
3) regarding noise/buzz when combining loops 1-6 in front of amp and loops 7-10 post amp, this noise is nowhere to be found when connecting directly to the amp and bypassing the split input/out scenario, as well as if I just run all pedals in front of the amp, there is no additional noise or buzz.

Is this type of rig just not feasible with the PBC without types of noise problems?

just now discovering this threat and I have some questions:

I'm running a similar wet dry wet rig with my amp setup utilizing the following:

guitar > Patch bay > PBC Input

Loop 1 Jackson Audio Compressor
Loop 2 Jackson Audio Prism boost
Loop 3 King of Tone
Loop 4 Klon KTR
Loop 5 Mosstortion
Loop 6 Walrus Julia chorus/vibrato

after loop 6 it goes into the input of my amp, either a matchless clubman or a mesa boogie mark 5. The amp is connected to a two notes Captor X with the Left side running to FOH or DAW, and the Right side running to the pedalboard input for loop 7 - 10.

Loop 7 Meris Hedra
Loop 8 Strymon Volante
Loop 9 Strymon Night Sky
Loop 10 Meris Mercury 7
___________________________________________________

Here are the issues I'm having with the set up as it is now:

1) I get an increased noise floor, buzz, interference when running loops 1-6 in front of the amp and then running the amp back to loop 7-10. This happens whether or not there are any pedals or loops turned on in the PBC
2) There is a very light, fast, ticking sound. I've had this problem for a long time and haven't been able to isolate the problem yet. I've looked into possible active sensing, but am still unsure.
3) regarding noise/buzz when combining loops 1-6 in front of amp and loops 7-10 post amp, this noise is nowhere to be found when connecting directly to the amp and bypassing the split input/out scenario, as well as if I just run all pedals in front of the amp, there is no additional noise or buzz.

Is this type of rig just not feasible with the PBC without types of noise problems?

Hey James,

So to your points, most of which I have had in the past with my PBC10 and since fixed:
1/3) The noise floor could be for a variety of reasons, most of which are power related. But there are a few which were not, here are some tips...
A) Make sure you're using a high quality isolated power supply. (most people using PBC10's are, but it's worth repeating.) I was using a pair of
Voodoo Labs units for my power which caused some noise, I then switched to the GigRig power system, no issues since.
B) Your amp may be causing the added noise in it's own ground loop. When you split the audio signal post preamp, this basically turns the
preamp section of your amp into another pedal. You may need an isolating transformer or ground lift option at this point. This can also
happen if your pedalboard and amp are plugged into different power points, especially if those power points are out of phase with each
other, this can happen at venues where 3 phase power is common.
C) Could you do the split for your loop 7-10 return before your amp? This might be the easiest/cheapest fix for the noise you're getting.
2) The light fast ticking sound sounds like an issue I had with a bad midi cable. I run a Selah Quartz timer for all my timed effects to get the same
clock signal, I know the PBC10 does this too, but I have found the Selah pedal sends a more consistent signal. Anyways, one of my midi cables
was faulty somehow, maybe shielding? So I got a similar fast clicking sound. I had tried everything to find the issue, when I started changing
out midi cables, sure enough part way thru changing midi cabling the sound vanished.

My rig, now has zero noise from the pedalboard, so I feel like you should be able to find the issues. Good luck!