PBC10 Owner needs more Loops: Mini Effect Gizmo X or PBC6?

[ZappaFrank]

My basic setup is: Guitar Signal -> PBC10->Lehle Splitter->Quad Cortex->H90->apollo x8 Audio Interface
The thing is that after configuring my Pedalboard with the PBC10 I purchased some more pedals like the H90, an Electro Harmonix Talking Machine, two Quantum Time Modulator Pedals and a Lehle Splitter (Input Guitar Signal, Output 1 to apollo8 HiZ1, Output 2 to apollo8 HiZ2). One Quantum Time Modulator Pedal is in the Loop of the H90 while the other Time Modulator Pedal and the Talking Machine are in the two available Loops of the Quad Cortex. I would like to clean this up a little bit and connect all those Pedals in the future with a PBC6 or a Mini Effect Gizmo.
The PBC6 or the Mini Effect Gizmo would then be connected one of the two available Loops of the Quad Cortex.
So which device would you recommend as additional switcher? And what would be the best way to connect the second switcher with my PBC10?
I guess that in my case it doesn't make sense to make audio connections between the two switchers, but maybe a MIDI Connection in order to be able to controll everything under one hood with the PBC10 and the PBC10 Software Editor, right? An argument for the Mini Effect Gizmo would be for me that I guess that you hear no click while the PBC10 clicks and most of the time I play at home at rather low volumes. So I can live with some clicking, but no clicking at all while switching pedals would be a nice thing for me as a bedroom rocker ;-)
One more thing about the Mini Gizmo: The descriptions says "When used with a Mastermind GT or LT, the Mini Effect Gizmo X can act as a tuner, displaying the tuner status on the Mastermind". This is not so interesting for me, but it would be great if the PBC10 Display would show the Status of the Mini Effect Gizmo. Is that the case when the Mini Gizmo is connected via MIDI with the PBC10? And can I controll the Mini Gizmo with the PBC10 Editor or is it necessary to use also the Mini Gizmo Editor?

 

[rjmmusic]

The PBC6 and Mini Effect Gizmo X are very similar in many ways, the main difference being that the PBC has an LCD and footswitches. They both do their switching the same way.

Both need their own editor to configure them, especially with regard to mono/stereo configuration and loop order. But, since their loops can be turned on and off by CC messages, you don't need their editors at all if you're just programming presets or buttons on the PBC10 to turn their loops on and off.

The PBC10 isn't going to show the MEGX status on its screen, it would start getting pretty crowded if we added status for another loop switcher on the screen.

 

[ZappaFrank]

The PBC6 and Mini Effect Gizmo X are very similar in many ways, the main difference being that the PBC has an LCD and footswitches. They both do their switching the same way.

Both need their own editor to configure them, especially with regard to mono/stereo configuration and loop order. But, since their loops can be turned on and off by CC messages, you don't need their editors at all if you're just programming presets or buttons on the PBC10 to turn their loops on and off.

The PBC10 isn't going to show the MEGX status on its screen, it would start getting pretty crowded if we added status for another loop switcher on the screen.

Thank you, then I guess it will be the PBC6. How should I connect the PBC6 with the PBC10? I guess only via MIDI right? Or not at all? As I said I want the PBC6 in one of the Loops of the Quad Cortex. This should be possible, right? And what about clicking? Is there a way to avoid the Clicking on the PBC10 and PBC6 when I just control them via MIDI?

 

[Diezel]

Seems like from what was once a simple setup turned into a complex one. ...you are entering matrix now.

Some of your pedals have true bypass, so that can clean up loops. My .02 would be to utilize the MEGx if loops are all you really need. Not only are you reducing your footprint, but you're controlling it all from one spot. To me, sort of the idea of a controller. Simplifying things, not dancing.

While the PBC6 is good on it's own and has different features of the PBC10, having it in addition to the 10 to me is adding features not necessarily benefits. The MEGX can be controlled by the 10. If you'd like the idea of a screen and to fully see controls, you could get the MEGx and slave the PBC10 and MEGX with the GT series controller. Now you're controlling everything from the GT (one spot) and can program every LCD screen associated with every button on the controller. You are deep in the matrix at this point.

Depending how you share loops, you'll at minimum connecting midi carrying guitar signal from one controller to another (or pedal). My hearing isn't like it used to be. Component fan noise bugs me, but relays activating was never a thought. I hear the physical button press more then a relay. The relay is a mechanically moving part so the sound you hear, is hard to remove.

I have and use the MM GT22, MEGX,, PBC10 and Effects Gizmo (and other RJM stuff). Not in all one rig, but use them all. To me, the best controller (not a looper) is the MM GT22. I personally don't like to change tape strips on a pedal board to recall what effect is on/off OR remembering what each button does or viewing one screen. I have enough other things to think about. The GT-22 in many instances tends to be my master controller. Recall, I use a few rig configurations. Each have their place and do their thing.

 

[ZappaFrank]

Seems like from what was once a simple setup turned into a complex one. ...you are entering matrix now.

Some of your pedals have true bypass, so that can clean up loops. My .02 would be to utilize the MEGx if loops are all you really need. Not only are you reducing your footprint, but you're controlling it all from one spot. To me, sort of the idea of a controller. Simplifying things, not dancing.

While the PBC6 is good on it's own and has different features of the PBC10, having it in addition to the 10 to me is adding features not necessarily benefits. The MEGX can be controlled by the 10. If you'd like the idea of a screen and to fully see controls, you could get the MEGx and slave the PBC10 and MEGX with the GT series controller. Now you're controlling everything from the GT (one spot) and can program every LCD screen associated with every button on the controller. You are deep in the matrix at this point.

Depending how you share loops, you'll at minimum connecting midi carrying guitar signal from one controller to another (or pedal). My hearing isn't like it used to be. Component fan noise bugs me, but relays activating was never a thought. I hear the physical button press more then a relay. The relay is a mechanically moving part so the sound you hear, is hard to remove.

I have and use the MM GT22, MEGX,, PBC10 and Effects Gizmo (and other RJM stuff). Not in all one rig, but use them all. To me, the best controller (not a looper) is the MM GT22. I personally don't like to change tape strips on a pedal board to recall what effect is on/off OR remembering what each button does or viewing one screen. I have enough other things to think about. The GT-22 in many instances tends to be my master controller. Recall, I use a few rig configurations. Each have their place and do their thing.

Thank you for your interesting thoughts. The thing is I am a Frank Zappa Fanatic. If I wouldn't be obessed with recreating his Tones than I would be happy with only one Guitar and my Quad Cortex, but now I have one pedalboard with Zappa Effects and there are some pedals I need twice. So now my big pedalboard is not enough anymore and I am going to create a little brother for like 6 more pedals. I see the advantages of being able to controll everything with a GT-22, but I have already so many devices and if possible I just want to add the PCB6 and I swear to god that will be the last device that I will ever buy ;-)

 

[Diezel]

Awesome. I have an old x100b Carvin I bought in the 80’s. Made me think of it when you mention his name. Haha it won’t be your last purchase.

I think the megx with the gt-22 where it controls all as a master is going to be far more powerful and easy to see what your pressing. You have allot of stuff going on. I’d have no idea without writing above each button what they do. The gt screens above each button makes it foolproof.

Good luck however you choose. …you can never have enough gear.

 

[ZappaFrank]

Awesome. I have an old x100b Carvin I bought in the 80’s. Made me think of it when you mention his name. Haha it won’t be your last purchase.

I think the megx with the gt-22 where it controls all as a master is going to be far more powerful and easy to see what your pressing. You have allot of stuff going on. I’d have no idea without writing above each button what they do. The gt screens above each button makes it foolproof.

Good luck however you choose. …you can never have enough gear.

That Carvin was part of his legendary clean sound... I have a capture of the Carvin in the Quad Cortex, but I am still searching for that magic Zappa moment with this capture

 

[ZappaFrank]

The PBC6 and Mini Effect Gizmo X are very similar in many ways, the main difference being that the PBC has an LCD and footswitches. They both do their switching the same way.

Both need their own editor to configure them, especially with regard to mono/stereo configuration and loop order. But, since their loops can be turned on and off by CC messages, you don't need their editors at all if you're just programming presets or buttons on the PBC10 to turn their loops on and off.

The PBC10 isn't going to show the MEGX status on its screen, it would start getting pretty crowded if we added status for another loop switcher on the screen.

One more time the following questions: How should I connect the PBC6 with the PBC10? I guess only via MIDI right? Or not at all? As I said I want the PBC6 in one of the Loops of the Quad Cortex. This should be possible, right? And what about clicking? Is there a way to avoid the Clicking on the PBC10 and PBC6 when I just control them via MIDI?

 

[Diezel]

I'm still a bit puzzled on the two dedicated controllers? I still prefer the idea of controlling everything from one controller. I don't like the idea of having two separate sets of buttons where each are master MIDI controllers...Usually you're extending or using one remotely. my preference, not necessarily yours. No right or wrong way.

Without getting too far off of topic, I think the issue is you want a few more loops to add FX through your QC. The MEGX seems like a better idea without all the extra buttons. You'd connect one midi cable from the PBC to the other controller that receives midi i.e. MEGX. The PBC10 still can control all the loops. It can reorder the MEGX loops, not add additional noise (relay click sound). I believe what Ron mentioned is the PBC10 won't show the status of the MEGX telling you what loops are on/off. That would be where your scribble scripts come in handy. When I use the PBC10 on it's own, I have strips above each button since I can't remember what each button does. Just something simple like turning on chorus...The LCD screen doesn't help me as any button can turn on/off whatever I want while sending multiple commands. The other issue is even if I added a name for the LCD, it's not going to tell me it's the chorus button until after I press it. The main thing I use the LCD for on that is when my rig was setup for setlist/song mode and it shows the song name w/song setting (intro/solo/bridge/etc).

If the clicking sound you're referring to is the mechanical relay sound, no, there's no way to remove that from the PBC10. If you're referring to a click noise sending through your signal, that's where you'll use clickstopper though setup.

 

[ZappaFrank]

I'm still a bit puzzled on the two dedicated controllers? I still prefer the idea of controlling everything from one controller. I don't like the idea of having two separate sets of buttons where each are master MIDI controllers...Usually you're extending or using one remotely. my preference, not necessarily yours. No right or wrong way.

Without getting too far off of topic, I think the issue is you want a few more loops to add FX through your QC. The MEGX seems like a better idea without all the extra buttons. You'd connect one midi cable from the PBC to the other controller that receives midi i.e. MEGX. The PBC10 still can control all the loops. It can reorder the MEGX loops, not add additional noise (relay click sound). I believe what Ron mentioned is the PBC10 won't show the status of the MEGX telling you what loops are on/off. That would be where your scribble scripts come in handy. When I use the PBC10 on it's own, I have strips above each button since I can't remember what each button does. Just something simple like turning on chorus...The LCD screen doesn't help me as any button can turn on/off whatever I want while sending multiple commands. The other issue is even if I added a name for the LCD, it's not going to tell me it's the chorus button until after I press it. The main thing I use the LCD for on that is when my rig was setup for setlist/song mode and it shows the song name w/song setting (intro/solo/bridge/etc).

If the clicking sound you're referring to is the mechanical relay sound, no, there's no way to remove that from the PBC10. If you're referring to a click noise sending through your signal, that's where you'll use clickstopper though setup.

Thanks for the clarification. So I have to get used to the relay clicking sound, ok it is not that bad. It is a nice thing if you give me so much advice, but the best advice doesn't help when you are dealing with a silly child and I am the silly child. On the hand you can never have enough loops, devices you name it...On the other hand there is a corner in my brain where I want to downsize everything. An inner voice is telling me that for the rest of my life the Quad Cortex together with the Eventide H90 and six pedals should be more than enough. ;-) Anyway I have already ordered the PBC6 and I use my gear only at home. So at the end my one and only "main controller" is Gig Performer which sends MIDI Commands to the Quad Cortex, the H90 etc. Why don't we have Frank Zappa the last word on this:
Anything Anytime Anyplace For No Reason At All!

 

[Diezel]

ha-ha love the Frank quote. I unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to see him live in action. A close professional photographer buddy did shots of Frank back in the day. Classic! My buddy did shoot his sons show as well a few years ago which I did attend. He showed me a few of Franks a couple months ago. They were all taken on old fashion film/negatives. Frank was a master of his trade.

You've documented that you have "more then enough"...don't let that statement bite you in the butt with your wife if she reads your public comments.

hmm "gig performer", I don't recall you mentioning you had this. Is this a new purchase or just one that you forgot to mention lol.

 

[ZappaFrank]

ha-ha love the Frank quote. I unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to see him live in action. A close professional photographer buddy did shots of Frank back in the day. Classic! My buddy did shoot his sons show as well a few years ago which I did attend. He showed me a few of Franks a couple months ago. They were all taken on old fashion film/negatives. Frank was a master of his trade.

You've documented that you have "more then enough"...don't let that statement bite you in the butt with your wife if she reads your public comments.

hmm "gig performer", I don't recall you mentioning you had this. Is this a new purchase or just one that you forgot to mention lol.

I have been using Gig Performer since about two years. It is just a software to control MIDI devices and to create virtual rigs. I am hiding my pedalboard under a cover because otherwise I would be in serious trouble with my wife

 

[ZappaFrank]

I changed my mind. It will be better for me to have the PCB6 in the Loop of the Eventide H90 instead of the Loop of the Quad Cortex, but there is one point which is not clear for me: I want a Stereo Setup, but the PCB6 has only one physical Output. So if I want a Stereo Output I would need an Y-TRS-Cable, right?
The PCB6 has two inputs. Can I use those if I want a stereo signal chain or is it necessary to use only Input 1 and also use an Y-TRS-Cable?
Just for clarification: My signal chain is now basically Guitar Mono->Pedalboard Mono->Quad Cortex Stereo->Eventide H90 Stereo->apollo x8 Audiointerface. So when I put the PCB6 in one of the two available Loops of the H90 I want to be able to use some of the pedals which are connected to the Loops 1-6 of the PCB6 in Stereo. The Quantum Time Modulator for example sounds best in Stereo.
Now I am a little bit confused how to maintain the Stereo Signal Chain with Pedals wich are connected to the PCB6 while the PCB6 is connected to the Eventide H90.

 

[Diezel]

Yes, to run stereo on the PBC6 the tip and ring are the the left/right channels. Sleeve is common. Make or purchase a Y-insert cable. TRS 1/4" jack to two 1/4" TS jacks. ...where the T (from the TRS) goes to one of the 1/4" T's and the R (from the TRS) goes to the other 1/4" T. Again sleeves are common so they pass to both TS jacks on the sleeve. Since all is stereo, reorganizing loops shouldn't matter.

Keeping it simple, as long as your entering with a stereo signal, the output should stay stereo if you configure the PBC6 for this.

 

[ZappaFrank]

Yes, to run stereo on the PBC6 the tip and ring are the the left/right channels. Sleeve is common. Make or purchase a Y-insert cable. TRS 1/4" jack to two 1/4" TS jacks. ...where the T (from the TRS) goes to one of the 1/4" T's and the R (from the TRS) goes to the other 1/4" T. Again sleeves are common so they pass to both TS jacks on the sleeve. Since all is stereo, reorganizing loops shouldn't matter.

Keeping it simple, as long as your entering with a stereo signal, the output should stay stereo if you configure the PBC6 for this.

Thank you very much!

 

[ZappaFrank]

The PBC6 and Mini Effect Gizmo X are very similar in many ways, the main difference being that the PBC has an LCD and footswitches. They both do their switching the same way.

Both need their own editor to configure them, especially with regard to mono/stereo configuration and loop order. But, since their loops can be turned on and off by CC messages, you don't need their editors at all if you're just programming presets or buttons on the PBC10 to turn their loops on and off.

The PBC10 isn't going to show the MEGX status on its screen, it would start getting pretty crowded if we added status for another loop switcher on the screen.

I have ordered the PBC6 in the meantime. In the PBC10 I always only used one loop at a time in a preset, but with the PBC6 I want to make Presets which combine for example two loops. I know how to do this, but just for clarification. Let's say in Loop 1 is a compressor and in Loop2 a flanger. Now I make a Preset which contains the Loop1 with the compressor and Loop 2 with the flanger. Is the routing of those Loops serial? So does this mean that my guitar signal goes first though the compressor and then trough the flanger?

 

[Diezel]

Yea series.

You would need to get a line mixer as the pbc6 does not have advanced parallel mixing capabilities like your pbc10.

You can move the compressor in front or behind as the pbc6 has rerouting/organizing features that the pbc10 does not have.

The pbc6 and megx have similar functions both fully controllable via midi command remotely. The pbc6 has stomp buttons and an lcd screen so that’s a plus if you need it. On the other hand….I’m not familiar with your quad cortex but if it can assumigly send midi it can control the pbc6 or megx once you configure either one in their editors….or all or some be controlled by the pbc10.

 

[ZappaFrank]

Yea series.

You would need to get a line mixer as the pbc6 does not have advanced parallel mixing capabilities like your pbc10.

You can move the compressor in front or behind as the pbc6 has rerouting/organizing features that the pbc10 does not have.

The pbc6 and megx have similar functions both fully controllable via midi command remotely. The pbc6 has stomp buttons and an lcd screen so that’s a plus if you need it. On the other hand….I’m not familiar with your quad cortex but if it can assumigly send midi it can control the pbc6 or megx once you configure either one in their editors….or all or some be controlled by the pbc10.

If it is serial everything is fine for me. Thank you very much! And interesting to know that the PBC6 has rerouting features which the 10 doesn't have. As I said before I am using the software Gig Performer which works very well to send MIDI Commands to any device you can imagine in your wildest dreams

 

[ZappaFrank]

The PBC6 and Mini Effect Gizmo X are very similar in many ways, the main difference being that the PBC has an LCD and footswitches. They both do their switching the same way.

Both need their own editor to configure them, especially with regard to mono/stereo configuration and loop order. But, since their loops can be turned on and off by CC messages, you don't need their editors at all if you're just programming presets or buttons on the PBC10 to turn their loops on and off.

The PBC10 isn't going to show the MEGX status on its screen, it would start getting pretty crowded if we added status for another loop switcher on the screen.

Today was the first that I had the PCB10 and 6 running at the same time. In the Mac Audio MIDI Manager I had to give them different MIDI Device Names otherwise it would have become complicated to control them via Gig Performer. But now to my question: If I am using the Mastermind Editor it seems that only one device can be connected via USB to my Mac. Is that right? I had the problem that when both devices were connected to my Mac and I wanted to send settings to the PCB6 they were send to the PCB10. As if the PCB10 alway had a kind of priority. The only thing that helped was to disconnect the PCB10. Then it was no problem to read, send etc. device settings from the PCB6. One more question: I got the Meris Polymoon. I have a MIDI to EXP Cable which connects the MIDI OUT from the PCB6 to the Exp Input of the Polymoon. I am trying now to send Program Changes from the PCB6 to the Polymoon, but it doesn't work. As far I can see I have the correct settings on the Polymoon. So any ideas which setting has to be adjusted on the PCB6? Bonus question: Is it possible to send not only Program Change, but also MIDI sysex from the PCB6 to the Polymoon? Update: Sending Program Changes from the PCB6 to the Polymoon works now. So my question remains if it is possible to send sysex via the PCB6 to the Polymoon. The screenshot show what I want to send. It is a sysex File for a Polymoon Preset.