Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the following:

[wadehenderson]

Please recommend a setup diagram to allow me to use these two amps with pedals before the preamps and pedals in the fx loop of one of my amps. Here is my rig: 2 amps - Bogner XTC 20th anniv. & Fender Twin. I use the Bogner Fx loop and leave the Twin dry with the exception of a distortion pedal in front of it. Pedals before the preamps: Plimsoul distortion (before the Bogner), Wampler Triple Wreck distortion (before the Twin), Lehle Sunday driver boost/buffer (wherever?). Fx Loop (Bogner): Analogman Minichorus, Eventide Timefactor, MXR Carbon Copy, Holy Grail reverb. I use a ground control pro footswitch and have the Bogner midi controlled by RG-16

I currently have this setup
Guitar -> Wah -> Plimsoul -> Triple Wreck -> Volume pedal -> RG-16 input -> out to Sunday Driver -> Loop 3 Bogner XTC -> Loop 4 Twin -> Loop 5 input from Bogner fx loop send, then Loop 5 to Mini-chorus -> Loop 6 Timefactor -> Loop 7 Carbon Copy -> Loop 8 Holy Grail, and out to Bogner return fx loop. I use an Ebtech hum elim in front of the Twin to reduce hum.

I have each loop on instant access and I have presets on Ground control to use either or both amp. Sounds gorgeous ....but.....Obvious problems/questions are: 1) I really only want Plimsoul in front of Bogner only (adds extra cut to any of the three channels on Bogner), and Triple Wreck in front of Twin only (sounds great when combining distorted twin with the natural distortion of Bogner) ..but programmable on presets so can program both clean or both dirty. 2) I like to have distortion pedals in front of Volume pedal so full gain at lower volumes (2 volume pedals?), 3)Is there any disadvantage to running amps in loops 1-4(series) vs 5-8(isolated/parallel) since I am sending to amp but not returning to each corresponding loop and is signal split appropriately without me using a lehle p-split? 4) Where is best place to put Sunday Driver?

Appreciate your input!!!

 

[rjmmusic]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

What I would do is split the signal coming out of the RG-16 buffer output using a Y-cable. Have it go to the input of loop 5, and also the input of loop 8. Put the pedals that go in front of the Bogner input in loops 5-7 (remembering to connect the out of each loop to the In of the next). Output 7 goes to the input of the Bogner.

Put the Triple Wreck in loop 8, the output of loop 8 goes to the Twin's input.

The pedals that go in the Bogner loop would go in loops 1-4. The Input and Output jacks would connect to the Bogner's loop send and return respectively.

This arrangement would keep both amps on at all times. If you need to switch between amps, you'll need to sacrifice two loops, probably 5 and 6, to get the job done (or add a Y-Not to do the A/B switching). If you use 5 and 6 for A/B switching, you can still use 7 for the Plimsoul, but would not have room for another pedal.

As for the Sunday driver, it depends on what you're using it for. If it's a full-time buffer, you could run it in front of the RG-16 input. If you want it to push the front of the Bogner, put it in loop 5. If you want it to be a clean boost, put it in the effects loop of the Bogner. (All depending, of course, on whether you have a loop available in the location you need it).

 

[wadehenderson]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

OK. Makes sense. A couple of questions:

1. If I use loops 5 and 6 for amp switching in case I want to use one amp at a time, (I still want to be able to use both together as well) how do I configure those loops? in/out/send/return to???

2. Since loop 7 is both the plimsoul (send/return) and bogner (out) , and since loop 8 is both triple wreck (send/return) and twin (out) , ....will I be able to control via the ground control pro instant access buttons and presets to turn the distortion on & off? In other words, if I use my instant access footswitch to control loop 7, wont it turn both the plimsoul and the twin off together? And if so, then also I wouldn't be able to preset different configs?

3. What is the advantage of running the amps through the 'out' in loops 5-8 vs going into the amps input from the 'send' in loops 1-4? I mean, since I am not coming back into the corresponding returns, doesn't the rg-16 split the signal anyhow?

Here is what I have tried since my last post that seems to work?:::

RG-16 (from front) -> Sunday Driver -> (input)
Loop 1: (send 1) Plimsoul -> (return 1)
Loop 2: (send 2) Volume Pedal -> Bogner -> 4x12 cabinet
Loop 3: (send 3) Triple Wreck -> (return 3)
Loop 4: (send 4) -> Ebtech Hum elim -> Fender Twin -> 2x12 cabinet

Loop 5: from Bogner fx send (5 input) -> Chorus (send/return) -> (out to 6 in)
Loop 6: Eventide Timefactor (send/return) -> (out to 7 in)
Loop 7: Carbon Copy (send/return) -> (out to 8 in)
Loop 8: Holy Grail (send/return) -> (out 8) to Bogner fx return

The seeming advantage here is that I can create presets from ground control footswitch with either or both amps and either or both distortion pedals.

The only downsides are:
1. If the plimsoul is on and both amps on, then it also affects the twin... but I have it as a minimal distortion so it is acceptable
2. I really have to run 2 volume pedals to keep the distortion in front of the volume, but I wouldve had to do that anyway

Please let me know if I am missing something? or what your recommendations are? Many Thanks!!!!

 

[rjmmusic]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

1. Connect send 5 to In 7 (the pedal in front of the Bogner), and Send 6 to In 8 (the pedal in front of the Twin). Don't connect anything to the returns of the loops, and make sure to connect Out 5 to In 6.

2. Loops 7 and 8 are independent of each other. Turning loop 7 on and off will not turn off the signal to the Bogner, it will only switch the pedal in and out of the signal path. Same with loop 8 - it will control the pedal, not the amp (that's why you'd need loops 5 and 6 to switch the amps).

3). Connecting an amp through the output leaves the signal on at all times, connecting through the send makes it switchable. You need to first go through a send-connected loop (5 and 6), then through another loop to switch the pedal in front of the amp (in which case, the pedal is connected to the send and return, and the amp is connected to the output).

The difference between my setup and yours is exactly as you describe - in mine, the Plimsoul only affects the Bogner, and the Triple Wreck only affects the Twin. Aside from that difference, they will both get the job done.

 

[wadehenderson]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

Any possibility of sketching this out on a diagram? If so, thank you so much!!!

 

[rjmmusic]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

Here's a diagram for you...

 

[joe web]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

Here's a diagram for you...

ron, just a question to the diagram:
why did you use a Y-cable from the buffer out instead of using the Tuner out to feed the second amp?
any specific reason for that?

 

[rjmmusic]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

Here's a diagram for you...

ron, just a question to the diagram:
why did you use a Y-cable from the buffer out instead of using the Tuner out to feed the second amp?
any specific reason for that?

Ha! You're absolutely right - you can use the tuner out for that instead of the Y-cable.

I guess that this is another sign that I'm doing too many things at once! Not enough brain cells to go around. :roll:

 

[wadehenderson]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

I have been using this Tuner Out option to feed my second amp but i am wondering if there is a diminished or weaker signal through the Tuner Out??? Is there any disadvantage to this? Does splitting the signal lose anything? Would Y cable make any difference? Thanks Ron,
Wade

 

[rjmmusic]

Re: Please recommend 2 amp setup with fx loop and the follow

Because the buffer drives both the Tuner Out and Buffer Out, there should be no noticeable signal loss. The buffer's output is pretty strong, more than enough to drive the inputs of two amps.