Question on use of multiple Pages per different amp

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Hello! I’m trying to get a grasp on a “better” way to get control of a multi-amp setup. This is for a studio use setup so live use isn’t a consideration.

I’ve been setting things like channel function switch for multi amps but have left everything on the same page, just banking up when controlling each addition amp. I’m thinking this may not best the best way of tackling this. Is putting each amp on its own separate Page # a better way or not? And if so, what are the advantages?

I’ve watched several of the Mastermind You Tube videos and it looks like the MM GT’s make this process a lot more intuitive as you have a separate button for every function but the LT only shows four per bank and it becomes a bit harder to understand how the entire process works.

Looking forward to responses from the experts!

 

[rjmmusic]

In the Mastermind, there's often more than one way to accomplish things. There's some overlap between what banks can do and what pages can do, but they are definitely intended for different purposes. And, there's no reason you can't use them both at the same time, but on the LT it's a bit harder due to the small number of buttons.

Since I've seen the configuration you're using, I can say that pages would be a good idea - as long as you don't end up using a lot more presets. The more presets you have, the more likely you're going to need banks. Do you have an idea of how many presets you'll be using overall?

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Thanks! I would say 3 to 4 presets per amp. One amp has a guitar silencer in its loop and and its state is already programmed per preset via a Rack Gizmo. I also have the silencer setup on its own button to control its bypass function. We got this to work all on the same button page but it interferes with all presets going forward on the same page. That’s why I’m thinking one page per amp could be a “better” solution?? Haven’t tried it yet and would like to avoid any pitfalls.

 

[rjmmusic]

So, are you saying that, when you're working with one amp, you aren't doing anything with the other amps? If so, then pages are definitely better. Presets are designed to affect all of the devices in your system at the same time.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

So, are you saying that, when you're working with one amp, you aren't doing anything with the other amps? If so, then pages are definitely better. Presets are designed to affect all of the devices in your system at the same time.

Yes! Each amp dedicated to its own page/buttons.

One quick question: I tried saving a loop “on” setting on a preset setting earlier via using the editor and then writing changes to device(LT). I selected loop 6 in the editor and clicked on “Done”. At that point I see a message asking if I want to change the Preset to “IA” which I chose not to. After writing to device loop 6 didn’t seem work when selecting the preset button. I also tried doing this via the “write” button on the Rack Gizmo but had similar results. Am I missing a step? Thanks!!

 

[rjmmusic]

It sounds like you were editing button configurations instead of editing button states... When you say you selected loop 6 in the editor, what tab were you in on the Editor?

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Ok I tried adding this loop #6 several ways, editing via the editor as shown in both pics and I also tried selecting the loop #6 button on the Rack Gizmo and writing the setting but in all these attempts loop #6 doesn’t turn on when selecting preset #3. It did at some point in the past so I don’t know why it’s not now.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Ok finally had time to sit down, watch a few You Tube videos and I’ve got myself back to where things were but that takes me back to the topic:

I made button/preset 4 an AI. It works beautifully! Now if I bank up the presets I saved for a second amps channel switching have all moved up by one. The IA button I created on button 4 has also moved to button 5 but does nothing. I have no idea why this behaves like this but does it mean I should have a different page for every amp I have or intend to use in this setup?

I look forward to your ideas and suggestions!

 

[rjmmusic]

It would probably be easier overall if you switch to using pages. On page 1, edit each preset button, set its type to IA. Then on the first button add this action: System / Preset preset:1. On the second button add System / Preset preset:2, etc.

Then on page 2, start numbering with preset 5.

Also, edit the Bank Up and Bank Down buttons and change them to Page Up and Page Down buttons. Make sure that Max Page is set to the number of pages you're actually using.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Thanks! I’ll give this a go!

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

It would probably be easier overall if you switch to using pages. On page 1, edit each preset button, set its type to IA. Then on the first button add this action: System / Preset preset:1. On the second button add System / Preset preset:2, etc.

Then on page 2, start numbering with preset 5.

Also, edit the Bank Up and Bank Down buttons and change them to Page Up and Page Down buttons. Make sure that Max Page is set to the number of pages you're actually using.

Ok there’s still the one thing I’m trying to understand: the first three buttons on page 1 I have set as “presets”. Then I have button 4 set as an “IA”. If I bank “up” one, shouldn’t the next four buttons be presets 5 thru 8? This is where I’m not getting it. Why does button #5 have the name of button #4(IA button) on it which steps the numbering order up by one on every preset going forward? Does banking up and IA buttons have an issue with order placement?

 

[rjmmusic]

Ok there’s still the one thing I’m trying to understand: the first three buttons on page 1 I have set as “presets”. Then I have button 4 set as an “IA”. If I bank “up” one, shouldn’t the next four buttons be presets 5 thru 8? This is where I’m not getting it. Why does button #5 have the name of button #4(IA button) on it which steps the numbering order up by one on every preset going forward? Does banking up and IA buttons have an issue with order placement?

When you press bank up, the LT will count the number of preset buttons on the current page and move up that many presets. You have 3 preset buttons, so pressing bank up and down on page 1 will move up or down 3 presets. When you start up your LT, the bottom row has 3 preset buttons which are set to load presets 1, 2 and 3 (HBE, BE-100 and CLN BE). The 4th button is an IA button that controls the gate.

When you press Bank Up, the system will move to presets 4, 5, and 6 (GATE, RK1 and RK2). Note that preset #4 is labeled the same as your GATE IA button, which is probably where the confusion is coming from. To avoid duplicating "GATE" buttons, you need to either get rid of the IA button, which will allow presets 1-4 (HBE, BE-100, CLN BE and GATE) to be shown in the first bank, or get rid or the GATE preset and rearrange your presets to account for the fact that there are only 3 presets per bank.

Or, switch to using pages so you don't have to worry about banks at all.

 

[rjmmusic]

I went ahead and converted your configuration to use pages. I only converted the first two banks to pages, just to see if this works better for you. The other banks can be converted later if this strategy works for you.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

I went ahead and converted your configuration to use pages. I only converted the first two banks to pages, just to see if this works better for you. The other banks can be converted later if this strategy works for you.

Thanks! This didn’t work as I hoped. Seems like I lost amp channel switching/function control from Rack Gizmo. I tried manual entering them via the Editor but although it’s not working I can see the Function leds momentarily flash on/off when I press a button on LT. I went ahead and reloaded my saved file and it’s back to where I left off.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Something additional I’d like to learn more about, my presets listed in the editor don’t really have a lot “IA” actions stored. I guess this is because I stored these settings into the Rack Gizmo’s memory when first creating them. Creating new CC’s for the Loop switching side seem to work fine via the editor but writing Function switching actions don’t seem to be working and I’m not sure why. I’d like to solve this so I can finally have a hard backup I can fall back on while I experiment. Thanks in advance!!

 

[rjmmusic]

That's surprising, because the file I sent you sends the same messages as your original file I have here. It's possible that what I have is outdated and you changed your strategy to use different PCs or CCs instead of PCs.

I'm having trouble keeping track of what you've changed and what the current problems are. I think we need to start over - send me your file, tell me what it's doing, and how you want it to work, and I'll see what I can do.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Sorry for the late reply. I've enclosed my latest updated editor file. I was able to update the function cc actions in this file. All working well! I would like to switch to using Pages though to see if that simplifies my workflow. I did try doing this via the editor and your instructions but for whatever reason this did not work. Hoping you can sort this issue out.

One last question, while entering new cc's to my current file I came across some presets that had Audio Loops assigned to the Rack Gizmo. The Preset Actions showed no CC's listed but the RG still had the certain loops active/on. I was able to clear them by turning the loop/s off on the RG and "write" their updated state. Is it possible to do this via the editor instead of the hardware? Note: I did try to "Add CC Action" in the editor and then "Remove Action" but that didn't work out.

I look forward to your updated file and thank you again for all your mentoring!!

 

[rjmmusic]

If you have it working, then it's probably best to leave it as it is. Pages will only help significantly if you start adding a lot more presets.

The Rack Gizmo is being controlled 2 ways - by sending it PC messages, which recall settings from the Rack Gizmo's memory, and by sending CC messages, which turn individual loops on and off. This isn't a problem in any way, but you need to understand what it's doing and make sure you set things up accordingly.

The way you have things set up, it actually requires the use of both PCs and CCs. When you change presets, it first recalls a preset on the Rack Gizmo. Most of these presets are blank, it appears, so it turns off all loops. Then, your preset actions turn on the desired loops and function switches. The preset actions never turn anything off, so that initial PC is required to turn off unwanted loops before you turn on the desired loops. Again, not a problem, just one of several ways to get the job done.

As you discovered, this requires that all of the Rack Gizmo presets to have all loops turned off. The Mastermind editor can't change any settings on the Rack Gizmo, so you will have to manually clear out any presets you're going to be using.

 

[ARMANDO DIAZ]

Thank you! I actually feel a lot more comfortable with the workings between all these devices. I have everything working and “saved”.

I do have three questions:

1. In the editor on the Buttons GUI is it possible change the current screen when bank up or down to next set of presets? My screen is just Page 1 and only shows the first four preset names regardless of which bank I’m on.

2. For the time being I’m ok with using banks of four presets to accomplish my current needs. You explained earlier that the reason I was having issues with button four set as IA was because it only recognized three presets per bank which pushed presets on bank two up by one. Is it possible to leave a preset/button blank/unassigned and not disrupt the button order of presets when banking up to the next set of three or four?

3. Would it be possible to add a one or two function footswitch to the LT and have it control IA cc action of the Gate I was having my issue with when I had it saved on button #4? If so what would be required in the Editor so it would not interfere with any saved Preset Buttons on any banks I’m using.

Thanks again!

 

[rjmmusic]

Thank you! I actually feel a lot more comfortable with the workings between all these devices. I have everything working and “saved”.

I do have three questions:

1. In the editor on the Buttons GUI is it possible change the current screen when bank up or down to next set of presets? My screen is just Page 1 and only shows the first four preset names regardless of which bank I’m on.

No, sorry, the editor doesn't mimic the actual Mastermind's operations that closely. It will only ever show the first bank of presets.

2. For the time being I’m ok with using banks of four presets to accomplish my current needs. You explained earlier that the reason I was having issues with button four set as IA was because it only recognized three presets per bank which pushed presets on bank two up by one. Is it possible to leave a preset/button blank/unassigned and not disrupt the button order of presets when banking up to the next set of three or four?

If you've been able to upgrade to 5.1.0, you can now set a fixed bank size. So, in your case, you could set a fixed bank size of 4 so that bank up/down always advance by 4 presets, no matter how many preset buttons are currently available.

3. Would it be possible to add a one or two function footswitch to the LT and have it control IA cc action of the Gate I was having my issue with when I had it saved on button #4? If so what would be required in the Editor so it would not interfere with any saved Preset Buttons on any banks I’m using.

Thanks again!

Yes, an external switch can be added, and external switches can be programmed to do anything an internal switch can do. As long as the buttons aren't set up to be Preset buttons, they won't interfere with your other buttons' configuration.