Strymon Sunset changing presets

[pgarcia]

Hello Ron! Please help me with an issue with the strymon SunSet.


I am using PCB/6 firmware 5.2.0 and mastermind editor 5.2.0 and I am not using preset calls for SunSet.
I have done all the midi programming from the editor.

I have the first 4 presets configured:
1. clean
2. cruch
3. Solo
4. rhythem

On page 4 and page 5 of the PCB/6 I have programming to change the circuits of the Strymon Sunset.

page 4:
G.E.,
Texas
treble
2Stage
Hard
JFET

Page 5:
GE+2Stage
Texas + JFET (last)

1. Preset Cruch, I have programmed the Texas button on page 4 to light up, on the PCB/6 it appears on but it does not make any changes to the Sunset pedal. It only does it until I manually turn the Texas button on and off.

2. Preset Solo, I have programmed it so that the button on page 5 -> GE + 2Stage appears on the PCB/6 but does not make any changes to the Sunset pedal. For it to work well I have to navigate to the buttons page. I have to turn the button off and on.

3. Preset Rhythem, I have programmed it to turn on from page 5 -> Texas + JFET and if it makes the change in the SunSet pedal automatically.

After so much time trying and making preset changes, I have realized that only the last of the buttons programmed for the SunSet works well, which is the Texas + JFET, the others do not react to the preset change...

When I enter the button page from the PCB/6 all the buttons work fine and the circuit changes are made for the SunSet but it is something manual.

In short, when I change Presets, SunSet does not react to the midi programming only the last one. Could you please help me...I'm a little desperate.

 

[rjmmusic]

Without seeing your settings, I can only guess at what's happening. But, it's probably a pretty good guess because it's a common issue...

If a button has Send on Preset Change turned on, it will send its message every time you change presets, regardless of whether the button is on or off, so all of your 8 buttons will all send messages to the pedal. It's likely that you're seeing some conflicts, where one button is turning on some features and another is turning them off.

The easiest solution would be to set up presets on the pedal and do it that way, instead of using IA buttons. It's possible to avoid conflicts entirely if you do this.

Otherwise, you'll need to go through each button and make sure there are no conflicts. Some potential fixes include:
- Set up your buttons so that each function on the pedal is controlled by only one button
- Set Off values for your buttons to "None" so that the buttons don't send messages when they're off

 

[pgarcia]

1. Reset all IA buttons and start from scratch.

2. Assign the PC 127 to each preset according to the SunSet manual. Put the pedal in manual mode. and on each IA button placeSunset / CC Toggle #0 off:0 on:0. where bank is set to 0.

3. I Program 3 IA buttons, of which 2 work well, one of them does not change the circuit and this is the programming:

Button 4, page 4:

Type: IA
Name: Treble
Group: None
IA ID: 0
Send on preset: Yes
Update on preset: Yes

Button Actions:
1: Sunset:Bypass A / CC Toggle #10 off:0 on:127
2: Sunset:Circuit A / CC Toggle #11 off:0 on:1
3: Sunset / CC Toggle #0 off:0 on:0

Button 6, page 4:
Type: IA
Name: GE
Group: None
IA ID: 0
Send on preset: Yes
Update on preset: Yes

Button Actions:
1: Sunset:Bypass A / CC Toggle #10 off:0 on:127
2: Sunset:Circuit A / CC Toggle #11 off:0 on:2
3: Sunset / CC Toggle #0 off:0 on:0

----------

Button 7, page 4:
Type: IA
Name: 2stage
Group: None
IA ID: 0
Send on preset: Yes
Update on preset: Yes

Button Actions:
1: Sunset:Bypass B / CC Toggle #15 off:0 on:127
2: Sunset:Circuit A / CC Toggle #11 off:0 on:2
3: Sunset / CC Toggle #0 off:0 on:0


1. GE. works well and makes the circuit change
2. 2stage. works well and makes the circuit change
3. Treble. It does not change the circuit.

 

[rjmmusic]

Are you saying that the Treble button doesn't work at all, or that it doesn't work when the button is engaged as part of a preset?

 

[pgarcia]

Hello, thanks for the answers and support!,

The button with the TREBLE programming does not change the circuit on the Sunset when the presets are changed.

The 2 buttons (GE and 2stage) work well when there is a change of presets.

 

[rjmmusic]

Ok, then the problem is exactly what I described, then. When you select a preset where the Treble button is on, and the other buttons are off, this is what happens:

The treble button sends:
CC#10 value #127 (Bypass A on)
CC#11 value #1 (Circuit A #1 select)
CC#0 value #0 (MIDI bank 0 select)

The GE button sends:
CC#10 value #0 (Bypass A off)
CC#11 value #0 (Circuit A #0 select)
CC#0 value #0 (MIDI bank 0 select)

and the 2stage button sends:
CC#15 value #0 (Bypass B off)
CC#11 value #0 (Circuit A #0 select)
CC#0 value #0 (MIDI bank 0 select)

All of these messages go out, and what's happening is that the Treble button sets CC#10 and C#11 to one value, but a fraction of a second later, the GE button sets them to different values. If you follow one of the solutions in my above message, you should be able to untangle this. I still recommend using actual presets on the pedal, it would be much easier in the long run.

 

[pgarcia]

Thank you very much for the response, I'm going to try it at night and I'll tell you how it went.

 

[pgarcia]

You were right from the beginning. The best way to manage is to set a preset in SusSet.

This video was very useful for saving presets in SusSet, the guy uses a Morningstar but it works the same for the PBC/6X, I leave the link in case it helps someone:

In the same way, I have programmed IA buttons to send PC to the respective settings that I have saved:

PC off:None on:1 (GE)
PC off:None on:2 (Texas)
PC off:None on:3 (Treble)
PC off:None on:4 (2stage)
PC off:None on:5 (Hard)
PC off:None on:6 (JFET)

It is the combination of 2 circuits:
PC off:None on:7 (Heavy Stack)
PC off:None on:8 (Blues Stack)
When I change the presets in PBC/6X, the IA button that corresponds to the circuit is turned on and the IA button calls the Sunset preset. works wonders.

Thanks for the help.

 

[jcshirke]

Jumping in here to ask if anyone knows why I'm having issues bypassing Sunset A (CC10) or B (CC15), or bypassing both A and B (CC 33). If I manually turn A, B, or both off, and then send a CC message to turn A, B, or both *on*, it works. But the reverse is not the case. Flipping the CC value to 0 has no effect.

I am sending the commands as Preset Actions in a particular preset where I want my Deco on, and Riverside, and Sunset bypassed. The messages to Deco and Riverside work just fine. I currently have "Send CCs on Preset Change" checked for Sunset in the Device settings. But I have tried it both ways.

 

[rjmmusic]

Jumping in here to ask if anyone knows why I'm having issues bypassing Sunset A (CC10) or B (CC15), or bypassing both A and B (CC 33). If I manually turn A, B, or both off, and then send a CC message to turn A, B, or both *on*, it works. But the reverse is not the case. Flipping the CC value to 0 has no effect.

I am sending the commands as Preset Actions in a particular preset where I want my Deco on, and Riverside, and Sunset bypassed. The messages to Deco and Riverside work just fine. I currently have "Send CCs on Preset Change" checked for Sunset in the Device settings. But I have tried it both ways.

You'll probably have to contact Strymon for this one. If the pedal isn't responding to CCs correctly, there isn't much we can do about it. I don't know if that pedal ever had a bug in its MIDI handling, but it kinda sounds like it.

 

[jcshirke]

You'll probably have to contact Strymon for this one. If the pedal isn't responding to CCs correctly, there isn't much we can do about it. I don't know if that pedal ever had a bug in its MIDI handling, but it kinda sounds like it.

Okay, thanks. There's a chance--maybe more than a decent chance--that I'm getting some bi-directional interference going on in my setup that could be the culprit. I'm going to change my MIDI OUT settings on most of my Strymons to OFF instead of THRU. If that works, I'll post. If not, I'll contact Strymon. Thanks again!

 

[rjmmusic]

It's also worth trying to connect the pedal directly to the PBC's MIDI output to eliminate all sources of interference.

 

[jcshirke]

It's also worth trying to connect the pedal directly to the PBC's MIDI output to eliminate all sources of interference.

I'd need to get a MIDI/TRS to 5 pin MIDI cable to try that, if there is such a thing. I will check.

I'll say this, though. I have 5 other small-box Strymons connected the same way, and the bypass function works just fine over MIDI. If I'm the first person to have discovered this bug--if that's what it is--I'd be shocked. But who knows.

 

[rjmmusic]

Those cables do exist, Strymon sells one (among others). Just make sure whichever one you buy is Strymon compatible. Their MIDI input isn't 100% compliant with the "official" TRS MIDI spec.

It is weird for sure. I'm pretty sure that the Sunset is the very first pedal they made with TRS MIDI, so maybe an early bug is a possibility if the pedal is older. Just a guess, though.

 

[jcshirke]

Well, I still don't have the problem sorted out. Here's what I've tried:

1. Factory reset of Sunset.
2. Reinstalled latest Sunset firmware.
3. Connected Sunset directly to the PBC's MIDI out using the cable you referenced above. (Once I saw it on the Strymon website, I realized I had ordered one a long time ago and had it stored with other MIDI stuff.)
4. Checked my presets in the RJM editor, and retyped them and resent them dozens of times.

All to no avail. I confirmed with another Sunset user (and with Strymon) that those CC commands do work for others. So, it's nothing systemic. It is either just my pedal, or it's something I'm doing wrong with the programming on my end.

Is there anything that I might be missing on the PBC end of things? Any possible conflicting message I could have lurking somewhere? Is it possible I'm trying to send an "OFF" message when I should be sending an "ON" one-- or vice versa? (I've tried sending values of 0 and 127 with the pedal switched on and off manually) I've checked the Buttons page. Nothing there that's being sent along with the preset actions. I just don't know where else to look or what else to try.

Again, if this helps troubleshoot: If I start with sides A, B, or both turned off, sending CC10, CC15, or CC33 with a value of 127 will turn the pedal on. But the reverse is not working. If I start with A, B, or both turned on, sending CC10, CC15, CC33 with a value of 0 will not bypass the pedal. Or, I should say--the lights don't go off. Maybe the pedal is being bypassed, but the lights stay on?? That would be weird. I've just been assuming that lights on=active. Lights off=bypassed.

Totally stumped. I'll keep banging my head against the wall, but if anyone has any suggestions at all in the meantime, it certainly can't hurt.

Thank you.

 

[rjmmusic]

It sure looks like you're communicating with the pedal. Maybe there's some interaction between the three CCs on the pedal itself? If you assign a button to send one of the CCs and use it (and only it) to toggle the pedal on and off, does it work?

 

[jcshirke]

It sure looks like you're communicating with the pedal. Maybe there's some interaction between the three CCs on the pedal itself? If you assign a button to send one of the CCs and use it (and only it) to toggle the pedal on and off, does it work?

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you describe above, but I did eliminate all other preset actions and just sent one CC command to bypass A, B, or both to Sunset. I tried it last night and again just now, but it didn't work.

I also went to the Buttons page and tried to send a new action by pressing another switch, setting the on and off values for the CC, and it didn't work either.

More bizarre behavior: I set up adjacent presets (#3 and #4) in the PBC that would send PC0 and PC1 to Sunset respectively. Preset #3/PC0 stores a preset on the A side of Sunset. Preset #4/PC1 stores a preset on the B side of Sunset. They should easily toggle back and forth, as I press the PBC foot switches. But Sunset will recall the preset from the A side only, whether I press preset 3 or preset 4--and they aren't even identical presets (in other words, calling up PC0 in both instances). And I did this experiment with Sunset connected directly to the MIDI out of my PBC/10. I repeated the experiment with Riverside, and it worked flawlessly.

The behavior of the pedal at this point isn't really predictable. I have stored presets and have manually switched side A or B on first, and then my CC command will bypass the pedal, turning off the light. But if I call up a preset via MIDI and then try to bypass the pedal, it doesn't work.

All I can figure at this point is that I have a defective pedal.

 

[rjmmusic]

Yeah, it's starting to look like a bad MIDI input on the pedal.

 

[jcshirke]

Yeah, it's starting to look like a bad MIDI input on the pedal.

SOLVED: I'm posting the solution here in case anyone else has an issue with any Strymon pedal down the road. I got to the bottom of it thanks to Strymon support.

Bottom line: Sunset was not set to the MIDI channel I thought it was, even though I set it and reset it at least 3 times. I only discovered that fact when I used Pocket MIDI to connect to Sunset directly (via USB-C using a Strymon Conduit: Sunset-->MIDI/TRS cable-->Conduit--USB-C-->Computer) and try sending a single MIDI message from Pocket MIDI to Sunset. It would not transmit anything over ch. 7 (you can set the ch in Pocket MIDI). But I accidentally sent a message over Ch. 1, and I saw Sunset blink. ("Whaaaaat???") So, going back and forth with Strymon Support, I was told to reset Sunset's MIDI ch using Pocket MIDI. I reset Sunset to Ch. 7, then tested it on that channel with Pocket MIDI. All the bypass commands worked. PC changes worked correctly.

Here's what the issue was: "One thing we do see happen from time to time is that unintentional MIDI messages on a different channel are sent while configuring MIDI channels, and since our pedals configure to the first channel they see, they'll be set to different MIDI channels than what you intended. Setting with Pocket MIDI is always a good idea, since it can only send a single PC message on a single channel at a time."

When I sent a PC message to Sunset from my PBC, it must have been getting confused by any other MIDI data that was also coming through. And it never set to Ch. 7 properly. It would still respond on Ch. 7 to some commands, but not accurately. Beats me!

I hooked all my MIDI connections back up on my board, and now everything is fine.