Will the Mastermind LT do all this?

[Piplodocus]

Mastermind LT in the post! Yay!

I probably should have asked all this first, but it was an ebay auction that was ending early in the morning. So I read as much as I could, had a quick fiddle with the editor SW, figured it should work, then put in a bid. I don't think they pop up *that* often here in the UK, and it seems about as good as it gets for what I want in a small package. Anyway...

So here's the plan, you tell me if it'll work, if it's simple, what bits may be tricky/might not work, or if any of it needs a re-think and/or I've misunderstood the concepts (happily using the Mac/PC editor for any of this deemed too advanced for the menu system)...

1. I can make a whole variety of presets, each recalling different MIDI presets on my devices. This'll largely be just PC changes. (I presume this is a given!)?
2. A preset change can also send multiple CC toggle messages if required (e.g. to switch pedal loops in/out)?
3. I can make each preset set the expression pedal to a different CC on any different MIDI channel I like, or none at all? (My expression is often unassigned so I don't knock it accidentally, but may do delay mix to Timeline on a specific preset, or BigSky verb size on another, etc)
4. I can use songs to set different presets in any order I like (and obviously re-use some presets across multiple songs)? So effectively presets exist "in the ether" with no particular button number, and patch buttons are placeholders for presets. It's the songs preset list that actually maps the presets to the buttons?
5. I can set up setlists of songs. And I can easily choose a different setlist or edit a setlist from the LT menu?
6. I can use bank up/dn to go up/dn songs of the current setlist?
7. I can edit the page (button) layout using the Mac/PC editor. I can also enable/disable pages, so I can choose the page layout of each page and use the function button to cycle round the enabled pages?
8. I can set up page 1 to have the first presets 1-4 of the song on buttons 1-4 (and have song up/dn on the bank up/dn buttons)?
9. I can set up page 2 with the next 4 presets (5-8) of the song(I often need up to 8 presets a song).
10. Presuming I only have these 2 pages enabled, Function will cycle between page 1 and 2 (so all 8 presets of the song are either right there in front of me, else only a function-press away)?
11. Presuming yes, the bank up/dn on page 2 can instead then be 2 IA slots to toggle a couple of things on/off on something or set say tap division on the Timeline, etc?
    
12. Can I easily tell which of these 2 pages I'm in (and what song I'm in simultaneously)?
13. It sends MIDI clock? Can I make say the function button flash the current tempo?
14. Setting the first patch of a song can set a new MIDI clock speed?
15. I can use one of the external jacks as a global tap tempo and is pretty accurate (one of the downfalls of my liquid foot is it seems to quantise taps to discrete values so sometimes is nigh on impossible to get tap tempo quite right - hence my big board having a Disaster Area Smartclock)?
16. If I use said tap tempo button to tweak the song tempo live, none of the other presets will change the midi clock, unless I change song, which then sets the new default MIDI clock tempo for the new song?
17. When changing song or using the tap tempo, the external jack can "tap" the external tap input of one of my modded Subdecay Prometheus DLX so my step filter is in time with the Timeline repeats (like my SmartClock pedal currently does). And I can set the number of taps it sends correct (e.g. 4 taps), as it doesn't like being continually tapped?

Things I'm not sure it can do, but would be extra happy to find it can:

1. Can the IA slots dynamically shift per preset? E.g. If my page 2 has bank up/dn as a pair of IA slots (as per point 7, can on preset 1 the first IA toggle a drive on/off and the second an amp boost, but if on preset 2 they change to being a fuzz on/off and delay infinite sustain say. (What a Liquid foot would call IA maps)
2. Anyone had any luck controlling one of the old original Voodoo Lab Pedal Switchers? The new ones like my PX-8 just directly have CC assignments. But the old ones you have to send a sysex string which makes it configure itself to the first 4 CCs (which it then in turn sends out another sysex string which configures any other pedal switcher downstream in the midi chain to be the next 4 CCs). I note in the editor there appears to be a boot macro setting, and macros can send sysex, but when I've tried this previously if the sysex is sent too soon the pedal switcher isn't ready and doesn't get configured. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, but I have one of them about spare, and adding a 4-loop switcher with dedicated manual buttons to use on the fly, but switchable with LT presets would be pretty ideal.

How hard is making presets/songs from the menu? The video I saw on youtube implied making patches using the default IA/Fn page, which I was planning on deleting! I presume it's still possible without the editor? I gather if I do the above I'll need the editor to make custom page/button layouts, but I don't plan to change that layout often. It's way more likely I'll just want to make a new song a practice with a new preset or 2 in, so will need to make it point to a new Timeline/BigSky/Amp Gizmo patch.

Did some buttons also have press-and-hold second functions or something? Maybe that's a question for another day, or it will all become apparent later when I have it in my hands...

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Since I'm new here (although I thought I previously had an account for my other RJM bits!), a bit of background (if you remotely care): I'm currently trying to downsize my board as it's too large and heavy for most of what I do a lot of the time. My great behemoth does so much cool stuff I'm definitely not breaking it up, I'm making a new separate smaller board for the more stripped down rock n roll gigs with the LT on. The big board uses a pair of Liquid Foot Jr+'s (so I'm familiar with complex midi controllers), and I've got a pair of Amp Gizmos and a Mini Effects gizmo on the other board, so I'm familiar with RJM stuff in general, but not the Mastermind series directly; hence all the questions. My Strymon Timeline/Bigsky live in a mini rack on top of the amp along with the amp gizmo (short FX loop cables+MIDI controlled). This means the board out front can happily be changed from the all-singing-all-dancing loop switching/lots of pedals/epic controllers beast, to just the old phantom powered Voodoo Labs original ground control, with the amp/timeline/bigsky common to either set-up. The big board is often a bit OTT, and the Voodoo GC too basic. Enter the Mastermind LT!!! This should give me most of what I get from the LF+'s (in conjunction with with SmartClock), in an even smaller format than the GC.

Anyway, thanks for any info or tips. You probably deserve a drink after reading all that!

 

[Piplodocus]

Had another lunchtime fiddle with the editor and got a question: how to I make a button tap-tempo the internal MIDI clock? Or is that not a thing (so I'd need an external clock pedal to do that)?

If not an option, obvs I can avoid MIDI clock and just tap the Timeline CC, but then I can't make default song tempos and the function jack won't tap other pedals to make them all run in sync too.

 

[rjmmusic]

In general, the answer to everything you asked is yes, with the exception of having presets 5-8 on a different page. Preset buttons always show the same presets, regardless of what page the buttons are on. Possible workarounds are: add a hold function to the 4 preset buttons, so that the hold functions also access presets. This counts as 8 preset buttons on the same page. Pressing preset button 1 will give you the first preset in the song, holding preset button 1 will give you the fifth preset in the song. Or, you could add Preset + and Preset - buttons to move to other presets beyond the first 4.

(This indirectly answers one of your questions - any button can have a secondary hold function, just set the button mode to Hold. You can then switch between the normal (press) button settings and hold function in the full button edit page).

You can edit songs and setlists in the on-board menu, but the editor is much, much easier.

To set a button up for tap tempo, turn on Flash w/ Tempo on the button. Also, set MIDI Clock to Master. You can do tap tempo with CCs as well, and using the Auto Tap feature you can have it automatically send CCs and/or use the function switching jack to send tempo changes to other pedals when presets change. This video explains it. It's for the Mastermind PBC, but the LT is just a PBC without switching loops.

Mastermind PBC 3.0 Auto Tap Feature

Controlling a Pedal Switcher is no problem, in the Devices setup, configure it as GCX1 and you will be able to control it using CCs.

FYI, we don't have any concept of IA slots. Or, maybe it's better to say that each button is its own IA slot. Each preset can load its own local button page, so every preset could have a different button configuration if you like.

 

[Piplodocus]

Preset buttons always show the same presets, regardless of what page the buttons are on. Possible workarounds are: add a hold function to the 4 preset buttons, so that the hold functions also access presets. This counts as 8 preset buttons on the same page. Pressing preset button 1 will give you the first preset in the song, holding preset button 1 will give you the fifth preset in the song. Or, you could add Preset + and Preset - buttons to move to other presets beyond the first 4.

Bummer. Guess I'll try the hold functions. I hate preset +/- as it gets too messy live and midi is to avoid all the tap-dancing anyway.

I'd presumed each preset buttons "preset index" was what determined which song presets ended up on which button. So if page 1 used preset buttons with indices 1-4, and page 2 used preset buttons with preset indices 5-8 I'd get different patches on each page (and could mix and match and/or repeat certain presets wherever I liked by reusing the same preset indexes on other buttons). What does each button's "preset index" do then?

Any chance of that described behaviour happening if I put in a feature request? Seems a shame for the LT (and I presume PBC) to do multiple customisable pages, but only ever have 4 patches available per song, or 8, but only if I use hold (or I guess maybe 6/12 if I get rid of up/dn on the preset page too). I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who'd be very pleased to easily have more than 4 sounds per song. I'm presuming I can't use bank up/down for more presets on the first page and have song up/dn on the 2nd page? I'm guessing currently the 16 available presets per song are only accessible with lots of preset +/- then?

Does the hold function change as soon as the timer is up? Or change on button release? Just pondering how well I need to preempt timing for hitting the patch changes with hold functions to stop fudgey patch changes.

This video explains it. It's for the Mastermind PBC, but the LT is just a PBC without switching loops.

I'll check out the Auto tap vid. Thanks.

FYI, we don't have any concept of IA slots. Or, maybe it's better to say that each button is its own IA slot. Each preset can load its own local button page, so every preset could have a different button configuration if you like.

Not quite sure I follow you there. I figured you may well not have "slots" and "maps" from the editor seeming to have no IA mapping related stuff. I saw "IA IDs" for IA buttons in the editor, and thought maybe they could relate to macros or something, in a similar way I mistook "preset index" to relate to different preset patches listed in a song. Not a big issue for me to be honest. What are the IA IDs used for then?

I guess that now begs the question, if I have 2 pages of IAs do the IAs just repeat on the next page like the presets do, or can I have more than 1 IA page still be useful? Doesn't ever seem much point in more than 2 pages if that's the case: 1 for patches and 1 for IAs (apart from maybe a 3rd set-up/setlist page). Admittedly you don't want too many pages to cycle through, but one of each type isn't many with a max of 6 buttons per page once you've discounted one button to change page.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you as you say "every preset can have its own different button configuration"? How do you mean? You mean different IA button functions depending on preset? If so that's what I meant, e.g. Preset 1 is clean delay. IA 1 for preset 1 is infinite repeats. Preset 2 is "dry crunch". IA 1 for preset 2 is turn on a fuzz ('cuz there's no point infinite repeating a delay-less patch).

I presume I'd use "preset actions" on the editors preset page to set up the 4 CCs which toggle 4 loops of the pedal switcher (or my mini effects gizmo if I steal it off the other board)?

 

[rjmmusic]

Preset index determines the order in which presets are assigned to buttons. For example, if you assigned index 4 to the preset 1 button, index 3 to the preset 2 button, index 2 to the preset 3 button and index 1 to the preset 4 button, it would reverse the order of the preset buttons. The difference between what you have and what preset index does is that the index numbers are relative, not absolute. When you put, for example, an index of 4 on a button, all it says is that it will get a preset number that's higher than any button that has 1, 2 or 3.

One important thing to note is that the firmware is basically the same for the entire Mastermind series, and that the Mastermind GT/22 (our largest controller) came first. All of the units have basically the same firmware, and the way some of this stuff works makes more sense on a controller with 22 buttons than one that has 7.

That said, I agree that there should be a way to change preset index to be either relative to the song (Preset index #5 means 5th preset in the song), or absolute (preset index #5 means load preset 5). Both have been requested features for quite a while. I will look into this further.

Hold functions activate when the timeout has elapsed, not when the button is released. A button released before the timeout period is done will be considered a press. The timeout is user configurable and is one global setting that affects all hold buttons.

You will need either preset -/+ or the hold button trick I mentioned - in song mode, there are no bank buttons. Or, there are bank buttons, but they just advance to the next song. The inability to shift the preset buttons from preset 1-4 to preset 5-8 in the current song is something that needs to be fixed.

IA IDs are used so that one IA button can affect other IA buttons using the System / Set IA action. For example, you can have one IA turn on all buttons with IA ID 1 and turn off all buttons that have IA ID 2 when the button is pressed.

Each page can have completely different buttons from every other page, there are no limitations there. The issue you're running into is that preset buttons always display presets from the current song, starting with the first preset in the song. That's why they function the same from page to page. IAs and other button types have no such limitations.

There are 16 global button pages, which on an LT would typically be selected by pressing the Function button to cycle between them. However, if you need more than 16 pages, each preset can have its own page that's unique to that preset, again with its own configuration. For example, you could create a page that has Prest - and Preset + buttons where the bank up and bank down buttons are, and four IA buttons across the bottom.

You could use preset actions to control a device, but it does entail more work - if you add actions to a preset that turn on some loops, you'll have to add actions on every other preset that turn those loops off. (Or, at least every other preset you would switch to next from the preset that turned the loops on).

The approach I recommend is to create another page of IAs that has buttons that control each switcher loop. Maker sure each button has Send on Preset Change and Update on Preset Change turned on. You can use the buttons to manually turn on and off the switcher loops, and you can also program them to turn on and off automatically for each preset, so they send the correct messages to each switcher loop every time you change presets. This results in less work overall.

 

[Piplodocus]

Preset index determines the order in which presets are assigned to buttons. For example, if you assigned index 4 to the preset 1 button, index 3 to the preset 2 button, index 2 to the preset 3 button and index 1 to the preset 4 button, it would reverse the order of the preset buttons. The difference between what you have and what preset index does is that the index numbers are relative, not absolute. When you put, for example, an index of 4 on a button, all it says is that it will get a preset number that's higher than any button that has 1, 2 or 3.

Ah, I see.

That said, I agree that there should be a way to change preset index to be either relative to the song (Preset index #5 means 5th preset in the song), or absolute (preset index #5 means load preset 5). Both have been requested features for quite a while. I will look into this further. ...The inability to shift the preset buttons from preset 1-4 to preset 5-8 in the current song is something that needs to be fixed.

Please, oh please, oh please, pretty please will bells on, and rainbows and unicorns please.

So basically each preset button would have some kinda {song preset ID/Mapper/Slot} field (exactly like what I thought the preset ID was), which you can set from 1-16, and which correlate to the song presets as currently numbered from {1-16}. The current 16 should probably be plenty for an LT (that's 4 pages of 4 presets). Can always have a checkbox to ignore it so as not to confuse older users. Very glad to hear you'll give it a good ponder though. The small number of preset buttons available per page which can only repeat on other pages does somewhat castrate a very well featured controller at present.

Should I put this on the Wish list forum to help bump it up the list/act as a reminder? Or it's already a continual ongoing thought for some time so there's no point me putting it there?

Hold functions activate when the timeout has elapsed, not when the button is released. A button released before the timeout period is done will be considered a press. The timeout is user configurable and is one global setting that affects all hold buttons.

So if timeout is 2000ms I just have to hit and hold it 2s before I want the change. I can't hit say 4 secs before (so it exceeds 2s), then let go on the change and it switches on foot off.

IA IDs are used so that one IA button can affect other IA buttons using the System / Set IA action. For example, you can have one IA turn on all buttons with IA ID 1 and turn off all buttons that have IA ID 2 when the button is pressed.

Ah, ok. I could see that being useful.

Each page can have completely different buttons from every other page, there are no limitations there. The issue you're running into is that preset buttons always display presets from the current song, starting with the first preset in the song. That's why they function the same from page to page. IAs and other button types have no such limitations.

Cool. You already know what I'd like here then! LOL

There are 16 global button pages, which on an LT would typically be selected by pressing the Function button to cycle between them. However, if you need more than 16 pages, each preset can have its own page that's unique to that preset, again with its own configuration. For example, you could create a page that has Prest - and Preset + buttons where the bank up and bank down buttons are, and four IA buttons across the bottom.

Ah ok. So it's not mapping different IAs to different slots in a multi-use IA page, but effectively when that preset loads it forces a specific custom page with its own hard-coded IA slots?

The approach I recommend is to create another page of IAs that has buttons that control each switcher loop. Maker sure each button has Send on Preset Change and Update on Preset Change turned on. You can use the buttons to manually turn on and off the switcher loops, and you can also program them to turn on and off automatically for each preset, so they send the correct messages to each switcher loop every time you change presets. This results in less work overall.

So basically make IA pages for all the looper slots, set them for each patch, and then can do an "IA save" into that preset? I guess these all need to be on visible pages then though? My other set-up with a Voodoo labs PX-8, and if I use one of these old pedal switchers with the LT, I'd have the direct on/off on the unit for anytime easy access so I'd want the IAs pages for these hidden normally. Also it'd be controlled from both ends so the LT wouldn't know the state if I changed them from the buttons, only from an IA page. Good plan for a Effects Gizmo/GCX though with no local buttons. Don't suppose there's a way in the editor to copy/paste a set of preset actions from one patch to the next. Could then copy an "all loops off" set across all/most presets, then just flip on the ones that do want to be on, or delete for "leave it alone" patches.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Piplodocus]

I just watched that MIDI clock/external tap vid you posted. So I can make the song tempo tap the pedal via the macro. Now if we're playing a bit fast/slow relative to the prefixed MIDI clock song tempo how can I tap the LT's master clock to a new faster or slower speed? If I have an IA set to to tap that macro will the master clock speed then change to the new tapped speed? Or will it just tap the tempo faster and leave the clock things the same (and out of sync with the tapped thing). Does it need the "calculate tempo from flashes" option?

Or for this do I still need my smartclock pedal with tap tempo to be master and the LT has to follow as slave (in which case I may as well just use the LT to recall a tempo preset on it and use that to send the taps/clock, and skip using the LT for clock entirely like my current set-up)?

 

[rjmmusic]

Putting this on the wish list is probably a good idea, it's hard for me to keep track of the requests.

When creating a page for the purpose of saving and restoring IA button states, you can definitely hide it. For example, you can create the page and only make it accessible by holding a button. Some bands use the external switch input to add a button to access the extra page(s), then take that button away when performing so that you can't accidentally change your programming in the middle of the performance. Or, you can just make the page inaccessible from the LT itself, and only make use of it in the editor, where all pages are always accessible.

 

[rjmmusic]

You can use the same tap macro on an IA button, and it will change the BPM to whatever you tapped, whether it's faster or slower.

 

[Piplodocus]

Got my tap tempo working great. Cheers! Works exactly the way I wanted after some fiddling so I won't be needing the SmartClock pedal on the board, as I hoped the LT could replace it. It changes with song change, but if I tap tempo it leaves it alone til the next song change (except I do 'accidentally' keep re-sending the original song speed and undoing any tap tempo tweaks mid song, as my actual songs have to be made up of 2 half-"songs" to get around the same presets just repeating on the 2nd page problem and only being limited to 4 presets per song - I popped that in the feature requests as suggested).

Got my IAs all nicely configured too now so that part with them all having to have a button (whether the page is visible or not) makes a load more sense too. I'm getting there!

 

[Piplodocus]

Just another quick question: the manual says don't phantom power it and give it DC jack input juice at the same time. But power jack + USB is fine. Does that also stand for phantom + usb? I'm mostly running off DC supply while configuring with a random 5-pin midi cable, and will be after I've built the board. But the main MIDI cable coming from my rack is 7-pin with power, so in the meantime I can go straight off that (as long as I don't use the DC input). I presume I'm still good to connect the USB (with power on too), or not?

BTW, Never did have any luck with the hold function for extra presets idea. Nothing seemed to happen even though the 2nd functions in the editor were showing the right patches (and all my other hold functions seem fine). I'm just going with 2 'songs' per song for now as it's probably better than using hold anyway, and hoping you might do the presets/pages mod in a not *too* distant FW update. Is that likely to be within say a month? Or many months and/or may not happen at all for the foreseeable future? I'm not sure how often new updates/features get added to the Mastermind.

In other news, last night I fixed some weird stuff that's been up with my RJM MEG lately in my other set-up that's been bothering me. Turns out my MIDI Solutions merge box was losing half my CC toggles on patch change when loads of messages go at once, but fine with single loop on/off messages!

 

[rjmmusic]

USB and phantom is fine, no problem there.

I can't give any predictions on the next major release date, except that I can't see it happening in the next two months, maybe not even this year. I'm trying to release two new products before the end of the year, and that's taking the majority of my time.