Boss MD-500 - Turn on/off via MIDI -Please Help!

[shoelesscraig]

Sounds helpful...lol. Another thing I think you should try, maybe before you do anything else. Check the box on the Device tab that says "direct send CCs/PCs". I got to thinking, maybe that could be the trick being is how is seems your pedal is a little particular on how it receives things. Worth a shot and only takes a second.

 

[Diezel]

I am using a Midi Solutions Quadra Thru, so 1 in 4 out. The MD500 is obviously one of the 4 out. I will run a direct midi cable from the PBC to the MD500 when I get home later. I will also update the firmware on the MD500. I have version 1.01 and current available looks like 1.02. Not sure that theres any bug fix in that small update, but you never know. I'll reach out later. Thanks again.

I use the quadra thru's as well...though it shouldn't be the culprit, removing it temporarily can give you one less thing to troubleshoot. I think the issue at this point is leading me to the pedal settings itself. Updating the firmware would be a good consideration. There's are improvements/changes that are part of the update so that could give you resolution as well. Shoe made a good point of factory resetting the pedal, especially after a firmware update, that can be a good thing.

As a side note, you do know the PBC is sending CC signals right? I suppose that's something to think about as well. The way to test that would be to use Midi OX if you don't have any other midi brand pedals or midi device that can see CC changes.

 

[rjmmusic]

I'll admit I have not read this whole thread (thanks to all that are helping out on this one!) but one thing that jumps out at me right away is the A and B thing. On Strymon pedals (and presumably their Boss equivalents, which I have not really used), I find that controlling the pedal using A, B and Bank is frustrating at best. Just sending PCs to the pedal using presets, IA buttons or Device PC - / + buttons is a much more reliable (and more standard) way to go. You'll have to think a bit differently about how you use the pedal, but you shouldn't have to worry about any weird MIDI implementation issues.

 

[Cyber87]

Sounds helpful...lol. Another thing I think you should try, maybe before you do anything else. Check the box on the Device tab that says "direct send CCs/PCs". I got to thinking, maybe that could be the trick being is how is seems your pedal is a little particular on how it receives things. Worth a shot and only takes a second.

Tried that too. I also tried checking some of the other boxes on the devices page, but no luck. The one thing I don't understand on that page is the "bank type". By default I believe it was set to MSB. I matched this on the MD500. But I also tried the other bank settings, "LSB AND MSB:LSB", making sure I matched to available settings on MD 500, but again nothing. I'm not exactly sure which setting I should be using or if it even matters , but again changing them didn't do anything.

 

[Cyber87]

I'll admit I have not read this whole thread (thanks to all that are helping out on this one!) but one thing that jumps out at me right away is the A and B thing. On Strymon pedals (and presumably their Boss equivalents, which I have not really used), I find that controlling the pedal using A, B and Bank is frustrating at best. Just sending PCs to the pedal using presets, IA buttons or Device PC - / + buttons is a much more reliable (and more standard) way to go. You'll have to think a bit differently about how you use the pedal, but you shouldn't have to worry about any weird MIDI implementation issues.

I understand what you are saying, and I'm close to throwing in the towel on this one. That said, what's frustrating is that this should be so simple. It works fine with my DD500, which is the same pedal form factor and has the same layout just different CC's. The DD500 uses a "delay on" CC command and assigning it to an IA button and setting it to the off state shuts the pedal off. Simple as that. That said, my DD500 is in a loop, so I don't need to control it that way, but still the CC logic is simple and works with one command. You would think that the MD500 would behave the same way. No. They use a "bypass" command for some reason. Regardless of what you call it, that one CC command should work.

 

[Cyber87]

I just want to thank everyone in the forum again for going above and beyond what I could have expected. Shoelesscraig and Diezel have been very generous with their time.

 

[Cyber87]

I just received another response from Boss. See attached file. Here are there instructions. Isn't this what we did? Or is there a command in here we didnt try?

 

[shoelesscraig]

I looked at the response, and I think it makes sense, but it does seem like we did this.

Let's back up a second. Since I don't have this pedal, I have to ask stupid questions, sorry. Forget CC commands for a second. When you send PC commands telling the pedal to go to specific presets, it works right? If yes....explain how the pedal works if you don't mind. When you create "Preset 1" on the Boss, do you choose what side A does and what side B does and then save that into Preset 1 in the pedal? (I understand that you're not ever using both sides...but I'm just talking here). Then you create Preset 2 in the Boss and do the same?

I guess what I'm getting at is this...if you are creating different sounds on the Boss, saving them to various presets that you can pull up with the PC commands via the PBC...then why can't you do this. Create all your sounds (however many that is). Then create 1 that is completely blank...for conversation sake, make it preset 99....as in, you get to it by sending a PC command of 99 to the Boss. Create that preset such that the pedal is still on (either the A or B side, however you saved it) but the mix or whatever is adjusted such that it does NOT sound different than the pedal being bypassed. Is this possible?

If yes, then you can forget all this CC nonsense and just make the MD500 go to Preset 99 anytime you want it off and go to something else if you don't. All you would be using is PC commands and you could delete all this junk. (Although curiosity still has me wanting to know how it works, haha).

 

[Cyber87]

Hey guys. I think I may understand the logic in Boss's instructions posted above. Since there are 2 banks I need 2 program changes. At least I think I get it. Trying it now .

 

[Cyber87]

I looked at the response, and I think it makes sense, but it does seem like we did this.

Let's back up a second. Since I don't have this pedal, I have to ask stupid questions, sorry. Forget CC commands for a second. When you send PC commands telling the pedal to go to specific presets, it works right? If yes....explain how the pedal works if you don't mind. When you create "Preset 1" on the Boss, do you choose what side A does and what side B does and then save that into Preset 1 in the pedal? (I understand that you're not ever using both sides...but I'm just talking here). Then you create Preset 2 in the Boss and do the same?

I guess what I'm getting at is this...if you are creating different sounds on the Boss, saving them to various presets that you can pull up with the PC commands via the PBC...then why can't you do this. Create all your sounds (however many that is). Then create 1 that is completely blank...for conversation sake, make it preset 99....as in, you get to it by sending a PC command of 99 to the Boss. Create that preset such that the pedal is still on (either the A or B side, however you saved it) but the mix or whatever is adjusted such that it does NOT sound different than the pedal being bypassed. Is this possible?

If yes, then you can forget all this CC nonsense and just make the MD500 go to Preset 99 anytime you want it off and go to something else if you don't. All you would be using is PC commands and you could delete all this junk. (Although curiosity still has me wanting to know how it works, haha).

Exactly what I will do if I cant get it to work tonight.

 

[AndrewL]

I did hear back from Boss support and they basically disregarded everything I spelled out for them and told me how to turn B off and A on. Thanks Boss!

Did they at least skip telling you to switch it off, then switch it back on again?

Not everyone provides support like RJM

 

[Cyber87]

Making some promising progress. I am finally able to get both A and B to turn off !! Now my problem seems to be an inconsistency in turning them on.

 

[rjmmusic]

Wow, just started reading that email - that's really messed up. They're using MIDI in a way that it's it not supposed to be used. It's like they kind of make the pedal work like two separate effects, but they share the same MIDI messages. I can't say for sure if we'll ever get it to work 100% correctly, but for sure, turn on Direct Send PC / CCs in Devices for the MD-500. Without that, you'll never get the PBC to send redundant PCs and CCs, which the pedal seems to rely on.

 

[Cyber87]

I created two IA buttons on page 4 "MD500" dedicated page. Effect A and Effect B, just like we started out. Only this time I created two Bypass "CC#27's" per IA button. So, instead of one CC27 line that says Off:0, ON 127, I created a line that says CC27 OFF: NONE ON:127, and another CC27 line right below it that says OFF:0 ON:NONE. I did this for both effect A and Effect B IA buttons and if I set them both to off state and transfer settings, both MD500 lights go out!!!

 

[Cyber87]

Wow, just started reading that email - that's really messed up. They're using MIDI in a way that it's it not supposed to be used. It's like they kind of make the pedal work like two separate effects, but they share the same MIDI messages. I can't say for sure if we'll ever get it to work 100% correctly, but for sure, turn on Direct Send PC / CCs in Devices for the MD-500. Without that, you'll never get the PBC to send redundant PCs and CCs, which the pedal seems to rely on.

Has me thinking and I was gonna suggest this before, but thought it sounded silly until your post about it being like they are treating it like two separate effects, which is what I took away from it. Do you think I need to create a second MD500 in the devices page and just set it to the same midi channel? I'm holding out hope because I am consistently able to get both lights off setting IA buttons to off state, it where I am having a problem is if i turn IA button to On state and transfer settings both buttons on MD500 stay off, but if I turn the IA button for effect B to on state and transfer MD500 A preset comes on.

 

[Cyber87]

Has me thinking and I was gonna suggest this before, but thought it sounded silly until your post about it being like they are treating it like two separate effects, which is what I took away from it. Do you think I need to create a second MD500 in the devices page and just set it to the same midi channel? I'm holding out hope because I am consistently able to get both lights off setting IA buttons to off state, it where I am having a problem is if i turn IA button to On state and transfer settings both buttons on MD500 stay off, but if I turn the IA button for effect B to on state and transfer MD500 A preset comes on.

Sorry. I see I typo'd. So to clarify by setting IA effect A to ON state, both MD500 lights stay off, but if I save Effect B in the ON state, MD500 A lights up.

 

[Cyber87]

My comments above about adding the additional MD500 come from thinking that I'm missing something on the Presets page. The PC Messages boces along the top of the page, theres a Box for each of my devices, the last one being my MD500, which has a check mark and Bank 0, PC 1. Obviously adding another MD500 in the devices page would add another PC Messages box on the Presets page. Perhaps I need that and have it set to Bank 0, PC 2??

 

[rjmmusic]

You could try it, but I couldn't say if it would actually help.

 

[Cyber87]

I am very happy to report that I am now able to control the MD500 via the RJM PBC properly! When I started this thread, my goal was simply to use a single patch on the MD500 patch at any given time in conjunction with any loop on my PBC. Keep in mind, my MD500 is running Pre/Post, so I'm connected to In1-4 for MD500 A side, and MD500 B side is connected to PBC In7-10, so not physically connected to any loop. All of my physical loops are being used by other pedals. My problem was I could not get the MD500 to simply switch a single patch on or off with a single button press on the PBC. I was either able turn Patch A off, but then B would come on and vice versa, or another button press would turn on both patches A & B and another press of either button wouldn't do anything, they would both stay on, etc...It was just very inconsistent . Since my intention was to only every use one patch at a time on the MD500 and not use it in "Simul Mode", where you can have both patches on at the same time, I had the MD500 set to "normal Mode". Normal Mode allows you to have Patch A on, or Patch B on, but not at the same time, so while this is what I wanted, I felt it was the logical setting for the MD500. Well, turns out, turning the MD500 to "Simul Mode" basically solved the problem ( go figure). I just had to create IA buttons on my MD500 page on the PBC with the proper CC commands to change Patch A & B Off/On states. CC#28 for A, and CC#29 for B. After that, I was able to create presets where I can now use any combination of Patches A and B on the MD500 for a given PBC preset. Both on, both off, A on and B off, or B on and A off. So the nice side effect of how this turned out is that I can now use both A & B at the same time (if I wanted to). Say a Chrorus on A and a Tremelo on B, etc.. . I couldn't be happier with how this tuned out. I attached a copy of my .rjs file which I saved with the bare minimums for illustration purposes and will hopefully help other PBC users who might look to use the MD500 in a similar fashion . Before I sign off on this thread, I need to acknowledge a memeber on this thread who went WAY above and beyond to help me achieve this. Diezel reached out to me earlier this week as determined as I was to figure this out. Diezel spent hours on the phone with me each of the past several nights trying different scenerios and we finally got the right combination of settings on the MD500 and PBC to make it work, so a huge THANK YOU to you Diezel!!! Thank you also one last time to all who chimed in here with suggestions. I'm going to go program the rest of my PBC and start jamming now!!

 

[shoelesscraig]

Good stuff....glad it worked out!